Posted on 10/17/2007 11:48:49 AM PDT by Dr.Syn
Second Amendment Rights and Black Sheep October 18, 2007 After carefully reviewing the historical documents pertaining to the drafting and ratification of the Bill of Rights, I am unable to find a single instance of “intent” that the Second Amendment was the bastard child of the litter. And yet liberals (including the Mainstream Media), who treat nine of the original Amendments with the same reverence they bestow on Mao’s Little Red Book, consistently treat the Second Amendment as the flawed bastard of the Bill. If any of our Constitutional Rights were trampled to the same extent that the exercise of Second Amendment Rights are daily disparaged and denied...the American Civil Liberties Union would suffer a collective panty-twist. In June of this year James Goldberg had his gun confiscated by the Glastonbury, Connecticut police and his gun permit was revoked after he was charged with breach of peace. Goldberg entered a Chili’s restaurant to pick up a takeout order on June 21. When he reached for his wallet to pay for the order a waitress spotted his legally owned and carried gun under his shirt and called the Glastonbury police. What happened next should frighten all Americans. As reported by the Hartford Courant, “Officers arrived and pushed Goldberg against the wall, while customers and wait staff watched. Goldberg, the soft-spoken son of a 30-year police veteran, said he calmly told the officers he had a permit to carry. They checked it out and found that he did. But because the waitress was alarmed he was arrested for breach of peace.” In true Gestapo style, Glastonbury Police Chief Thomas Sweeney had “...no problems with the officers' actions with regard to the incident,” And by the “always presumed guilty” treatment afforded legal gun owners, the state revoked Goldberg’s permit before his case even went to trial. Even though Goldberg’s arrest was dismissed by the Superior Court and his record was squeaky clean within a month of the incident, his permit was revoked and he had to apply to Connecticut Board of Firearms Permit examiners, “a civilian board that hears appeals on revoked or denied gun permits” for its reinstitution. The Board has given him a hearing date of May 14, 2009. Thankfully this Board is being sued by one of its own members, M. Peter Kuck, secretary of the Board of Firearms Permit Examiners, for denying citizens their due process rights with regard to the denial of their Amendment II Rights. And another “alarmed” individual, Susan Mazzoccoli, executive director of the board, has responded to Kuck’s lawsuit in true totalitarian fashion...”We have tried to involve the governor's office to have him removed....” One can only imagine the national outcry if a poll worker became “alarmed” at the sight of a black man trying to cast his ballot and the police arrested that black man because he “alarmed” the female poll worker and then the state revoked his Fifteenth Amendment Right. Or better yet, in response to Malik Zulu Shabazz (head of the New Black Panthers) ranting “death to Israel...the white man is the devil...Kill every goddamn Zionist in Israel! Goddamn little babies, goddamn old ladies! Blow up Zionist supermarkets” in front of the B’nai B’rith building in Washington, D.C...how about suspending the First Amendment rights of Black Muslims? I bet he “alarmed” a few people that day. But pooping on your Second Amendment Right is no big deal. For the sake of those needing a refresher course, Amendment II of the Constitution states that, “A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.” Not only does contemporary discussion of the Amendment go ludicrously out of its way to question the meaning of every word in Amendment II (including the placement of commas in the text), but it also questions the legitimacy of the Amendment. In every instance, the liberals toil in angst while trying to nullify the intent and simplicity of Amendment II. Yale Law School professor Akhil Reed Amar believes that, “The amendment speaks of a right of ‘the people’ collectively rather than a right of ‘persons’ individually.” (as if there is a difference between some abstract group of “people” and individual citizens) Yet, there seems to be no problem with the word “people” when it comes to the sacred First Amendment. How can this be? How can “people” in Amendment I instantly become individual persons but “people” in Amendment II are argued not to be individuals? By making Amendment XIV a “living right”, Professor Amar justifies this dichotomy by arguing, “...given that a broad reading is a policy choice rather than a clear constitutional command, it must be functionally justified. And the mere fact that, say, the First Amendment has been read expansively is not an automatic argument for equal treatment for the Second.” Amar further argues that, “...other amendments have been read generously; why not the Second? The obvious functional idea that sticks and stones and guns...can indeed hurt others in ways that ...words cannot.” And to this argument, one might ask the simple question, “How many “persons” did Adolf Hitler or Joseph Goebbels actually kill with a gun versus how many “people” did they kill with words?” Or ask about the 1932, German election that yielded a major victory for Hitler’s National Socialist Party. The party won 230 seats in the Reichstag and made Hitler Chancellor of Germany. (You have to love that right to vote) Yet, liberals fight daily to restore the voting rights of convicted felons while simultaneously trying to nullify the Second Amendment Rights of the innocent. Sort of gives a whole new meaning to Black Sheep. |
Oh. The right to self defense with a weapon is a state issue. I support it.
Correct. But that's what it's referring to.
I wonder how you know that with such conviction given that the Founding Fathers had a deep distrust of government and and a total abhorrence for a standing army (i.e. a state militia is just another tool to extend governmental power especially since its ultimate leadership comes from DC)????
Liar.
The Second Amendment at no point refers to any descriptor identifying what militia is being discussed in the preamble.
Further, and more important, even Liberal legal scholars, Lawrence Tribe chief among them, have conceded that when the document was drafted, the militia was everyone who was capable of bearing arms and were expected to report with their own weapons.
The same scholars point out that any other interpretation of the word "people" in the second amendment is impossible given the basic precepts of constitutional interpretation. (you can't or won't understand them, so I'm not going to bother explaining them to you)
Get off your militia kick, and just admit you don't like anyone owning guns unless your Federal Goverment gives them permission to do so.
I have said it before, you are either a moron or a shill for big government, anti-individual rights groups.
He isn't interested in learning why he is wrong, merely interested in attempting to push the VPC/collective rights, anti-individual rights, big government Socialism which he worships.
He is a useless piece of flesh, masquerading as a human being.
Ah, the crux of the problem. You seem to have a different copy of the Bill Of Rights than everyone else here. Our copy does not say "well regulated state Militia", it says "well regulated Militia" and then goes on to indicate how that's something good for a State, which does not in any way indicate that the State is the topmost controlling authority of the Militia being referred to.
Correct. But that's what it's referring to.
No it isn't you retard.
"and my neighbors and I are quite capable of being "well regulated"
Nice try.
You truly are a jackass.
You don't even understand the basic premises of our system of government.
Where does the State Defense Force (State Guard) fit in? About half the states have one.
Why not? They're a militia. Congress has declared them a majority part of "the militia". The Constitution refers to "the militia" with no narrower specification thereof. By what divine revelation do you deem them not worthy to enjoy the 2nd Amendment?
This thread has been totally hijacked. There are those of us who know about the right to keep and bear arms, and how that right has been corrupted. Then there are those who use weasel words and sophistry to attack that very nearly absolute right. I’m glad you’re on our side.
The bottom line is we don’t need approval from any government to defend ourselves; we never have and we never will. And there does not need to be any debate about it. That debate closed around 1776, before any Constitution was conceived.
It is OUTRAGEOUS that the man in the article was so abused by the local “authorities.” And if incidents such as the one described in the article continue, I am confident that they will be answered appropriately.
The State Defense Force aka State Guard aka State Militia, which you insist are the only ones enjoying the 2nd Amendment, fit in part (2) because they are not part of the National Guard or other enumerated groups.
Interestingly, it is precisely this part (2) which you firmly allege are not part of “the militia” enjoying the protections of the 2nd Amendment.
Ergo, the only group which you contend enjoy the 2nd Amendment are ipso facto a subset of a group which does not enjoy the 2nd Amendment.
You lose by your own argument.
Those would be organized state militia. It still doesn't preclude the unorganized militia that still exists in EVERY state for defense of state or country. Incidentally the 2nd makes no reference to just organized and addresses both classes defined as militia. The definitions haven't been changed and still apply.
IArp
stinkupthethreadfest began without me =0(
According to the Miller court, the second amendment protects weapons which are "part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense". (BTW, the M-16 and the M-4 use a .223)
The particular weapons would be decided by each state.
I was a minute late but we are on the same page.
See post 56, commas and all.
Indeed it has. If you will review posting history, you will see that any time RP joins a thread discussing the 2ndA, the thread is immediatly derailed and becomes a shouting match between him profusely spouting a view which is almost universally deemed absurd (even by "collective right" proponents), and a whole lotta people pointing out numerous flaws in the argument, which he derides or ignores. This goes on until his arguments are thoroughly skewered, at which points he seems to declare success and leaves to derail another thread.
I have repeatedly tried to draw this problem to the attention of Moderators, who have apparently done nothing.
By your reasoning the national defense would be answered with electric tanks from Kalifornia. If they so chose
Rediculous!
No, we agree. The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional.
The protection of that right by the second amendment, however, is limited to "the people". Strange that this so-called expert on English grammar and usage never did define who "the people" were.
Does it mean every person? What do you think?
Back on topic bump!
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