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To: Alex Murphy

I know I am probably wasting my time making this point, but the CCC makes it clear that Muslims CLAIM to worship the same God. It does not claim that the Muslim concept of God is correct.

For ANYONE to deny that Muslims CLAIM to worship the God of Abraham would be lunacy. Having said that, however, that does not mean that Muslims worship the God of Abraham with the correct understanding of who He is.

The CCC #841 says “these ****PROFESS**** to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

Lumen Gentium, 16: “In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, ****PROFESSING**** to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.”

Nostra Aetate 3: “3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, **** WITH WHOM THE FAITH OF ISLAM TAKES PLEASURE IN LINKING ITSELF **** , submitted to God. Though ****THEY DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE JESUS AS GOD****, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.”

It seems pretty clear to me that the council fathers and the CCC authors and editors are saying that Muslims CLAIM to have the faith of Abraham and outwardly worship the God of Abraham. Clearly, however, they also acknowledge that Muslims DO NOT WORSHIP the same God as shown by the reference to Muslim denial of Christ’s divinity.


42 posted on 05/10/2007 2:59:17 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998; Alex Murphy; Gamecock
Well put Vladimir; the Islamist understanding of God, as well as their manner of worship are extremely deficient. They could very well intend to be worshiping the God of their father Ismael, but of course in their manner of doing so, they have missed the true nature of Christ. In other words, the Mohammedans are wrong, and the Catholic Church points that out (though it points out the few parts that the Muslims get right, which is confusing to folks such as (Fr.) Bennett).

The “Love Feast” that Gamecock pointed out is a figment of Bennett’s imagination. Look at the Pope’s comments at Regensburg concerning Islam.

45 posted on 05/10/2007 3:26:33 PM PDT by GCC Catholic
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To: vladimir998; GCC Catholic; Alex Murphy; Gamecock

Well, I doubt that I would declare this “well put”. It sounds like a bunch of gobblygook nonsense to me.

If the Catholic Church feels the Muslims are not worshiping the ONE true God, why don’t they simply come out and say so. The real answer (understandably) is that the Pope would have hoards of Muslims storming Rome. No matter how much one tries to slice and dice what Rome is saying these days about Muslims, it is clear that they have sought the path of appeasement rather than confront people with the truth of the gospel.


49 posted on 05/10/2007 3:45:04 PM PDT by HarleyD (FR Harley: Nothing to declare)
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To: vladimir998
"and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day"

That's pretty clear.

"along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind"

So is that.

"They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,"

So is that.

"they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting"

That's pretty clear also. In order to deny that these documents state that Muslims worship the same God Catholics worship (even though the Muslim concept of God is deficient in certain respects), one has to deny what these documents quite explicitly state.

Clearly, however, they also acknowledge that Muslims DO NOT WORSHIP the same God as shown by the reference to Muslim denial of Christ’s divinity."

The documents' reference to the Muslim denial of Christ's divinity does not show that these documents "acknowledge that Muslims do not worship the same God" Catholics worship. That is a non sequitur, and makes the documents out to contradict what they state both explicitly and implicitly, as shown above. A deficient *concept* of God does not necessarily entail that the object of that concept [i.e. the being described by the concept] is other than the one true God.

-A8

51 posted on 05/10/2007 3:52:39 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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