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To: Pyro7480
Did I say I believe it? I don't.

So now you *did* in fact say what you meant in #7 about Christians and Jews not worshipping the same God, except you only forgot in #7 to provide the qualifier that you don't actually believe it? Ok. That makes hash of what you said in #24, and #28. The next time you say something that you don't believe, please add that qualifier ("I don't believe this"), so readers are not misled. If when you end up misleading readers either by saying something entirely different than you meant to say, or by saying something that you actually don't believe, but without adding that qualifier, please don't accuse your readers of trying to pick a fight with you when they start asking questions. Instead, take responsibility for your writing error.

If you think JPII and the Church are wrong on this point, then why the hesistancy to acknowledge that?

Because nothing that has been quoted from JPII or "The Church" is dogmatic teaching. Vatican II was a pastoral council.

That's a non sequitur. Just because it was not made "dogma" does not mean that it was not JPII's position, and is not the Church's position. (What is in the Catechism counts as being the Church's position.) And so if you disagree with it, it follows that you think that it is wrong. Therefore, logically, it follows that you think that on this point, JPII and the Church are wrong. So why not be forthright and say "Yes, I think JPII and the Church are wrong about this point."?

-A8

31 posted on 05/10/2007 1:39:27 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

It may have been JPII’s position, but that does not automatically make it the Church’s dogma. Dogma or doctrine is formally defined and is consistent with the tradition and practice of the Church since the beginning.

A pope can have all sorts of opinions but they are exactly that, his personal opinion, and do not thereby become church dogma.

JPII was occasionally ambiguous in many things he said and did, or didn’t say and didn’t do. He was also much more closely examined or constantly on stage than any other prior pope, and I think sometimes he made remarks that probably needed more clarification, but because of the circumstances in which they were made, never received it.


33 posted on 05/10/2007 1:49:45 PM PDT by livius
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To: adiaireton8; Gamecock
So why not be forthright and say "Yes, I think JPII and the Church are wrong about this point."?

Because that's not what Gamecock said. He said, "So the late Pope and the Catholicism are both wrong!?!

If you want me to be blunt, then yes, Pope John Paul II was wrong to say that. I may get the Riot Act read to me now, but I really don't care, since hasn't making an ex cathedra teaching. As for Catholicism being wrong, I certainly don't believe that. As for Nostra Aetate and the statement from the Catechism, I do think they are problematic, since Mohammedanism is a false religion.

34 posted on 05/10/2007 1:52:39 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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