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To: Swordmaker
Most conspiracy theorists contend that the 747 exploded in a huge fireball as portrayed in the following graphic when struck by a missile at about 13,800 feet at approximately 8:21:12.

In effect, you disagree in part by alleging that although the 747 was struck by a missile at approximately the same time and altitude as contended by most of the conspiracy theorists, the huge fireball explosion took place 8:31:39:64 at 7,000 feet.

It's interesting that your 7,000 foot altitude allegation for the huge fireball explosion is compatible with the detailed report personally prepared by airborne witnesses Sven Faret and Ken Wendell .

However, it is your speculation that a missile was fired at the 747 at 8:31:04 - APPROXIMATELY THIRTY SIx SECONDS BEFORE THE HUGE FIREBALL EXPLOSION that appears to be in conflict with the vast majority, if not all, of the streak witness reports.

Some examples:

Witness 108 - "in southwest he saw what appeared to be a flare rise up from below the tree line." "rising at a 65 degree angle at a steady speed." "the flare left behind a smoke trail which was bluish/gray in color." "The flare rose upward and then arced downward." "the flare descended from the arc for approximately one second and exploded into an orange ball."

Witness 151 - "he described what he thought was a flare" "he described the flare as a white wispy trail that went straight up." "he followed the flare for about 5 seconds, then the flare turned into an orange burst."

.Witness 157 - "noticed a red flare or firework trailing white smoke ascending over the tree line". "Approximately seven to ten seconds later he observed a large fireball erupt"

Witness 174 - "saw a skyrocket type object streak up into the night sky from behind Sheffield Island. The skyrocket had an orange contrail which had a continuous brightness." "A few seconds later, after the skyrocket contrail disappeared, he saw a large orange fireball appear"

Witness 179 - "she observed an object ...which looked like a flare or a firework going up. She thought at first it was a firework which was a dud because it arced and went down." "she observed the object climb in an erratic fashion for about five seconds at which point she noticed an explosion"

Witness 484 - "for approximately ten seconds, observed the object traveling in an arc from her lower right to upper left. The object disappeared for approximately one second and then observed a large explosion in the same area where the object had disappeared."

Witness 497 - "observed what he thought was a red flare appear and ascend in the sky." "the red flare-like object appeared to be moving straight up at a steady, high rate of speed." "the object's shape, color and speed remained constant for approximately four to five seconds." "At this time, the object disappeared in an intense bright white explosion.

Witness 692 - [Pilot of an H-60 helicopter, flying a night refueling mission (Maj. Meyer)] "saw a streak of red light moving very fast from his right to his left..described the streak of light as having the trajectory and image of a shooting star. The streak moved from a higher elevation to a lower elevation in a gently descending curve. He observed the streak for one or two seconds after which he saw an explosion."

91 posted on 05/05/2007 2:25:38 PM PDT by Hal1950
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To: Hal1950
However, it is your speculation that a missile was fired at the 747 at 8:31:04 - APPROXIMATELY THIRTY SIx SECONDS BEFORE THE HUGE FIREBALL EXPLOSION that appears to be in conflict with the vast majority, if not all, of the streak witness reports.

Sorry about taking so long to get back to you.

I disagree that there is a discrepancy. Something was the cause of the initiating event (IE) at 13,800 feet... The witnesses all state the streak's climb to be "5 seconds," "seven to ten seconds," "for about five seconds," "for approximately ten seconds," etc. I averaged this to 8 seconds and counted time backwards from the IE to establish a launch time. This is consistent with the burn time and flight time of a missile that can accelerate to Mach 2.1.

Untrained eyewitnesses tend to compress events. Time estimation is one of the first discrimination abilities to go in shocking events.

Although many witnesses saw one explosion, several witnesses reported the explosion as two explosions... a bright, white, high velocity, ordnance type explosion, then later a large, reddish fireball indicative of a low pressure explosion. Those who saw a double explosion tended to be more experienced with observing explosions... pilots, ex or current military, etc.

One of the witnesses you quote above (thank you) states "At this time, the object disappeared in an intense bright white explosion." Fuel/air mixture explosions, low velocity explosions, are characterized by orange/yellow light... not brilliant, intense white explosions which are more characteristic of high velocity explosives. I think Meyer also made the distinction that the explosion he saw first was a white, ordnance explosion... as did several others who were experienced in seeing such ordnance explosions.

I think other, less experienced, witnesses assuming that the second explosion was just a continuation of the first event, compressed the first explosion into the low energy explosion of the air/fuel mixture that I propose occurred approximately 26 seconds after the first when fuel gushing from the now broken off left wing was mixed with the air by the spinning plane, which was possibly ignited by a mechanical breakage spark. Until the fuel was sufficiently mixed with air, especially Jet A, it is hard to detonate.

Faret's and Wendell's reports, as well as the other air born witnesses' reports of the altitude of the "massive fireball," were instrumental in my placing that event at ~7,500 to 7,000 feet.

My reasoning is that sometime between the fifth post IE radar sweep and the sixth, the crippled aircraft makes an extreme change of vector, a change greater than 90º! To make such a change of vector requires a lot of energy. I think that change of vector is caused by the opposite and equal reaction of tossing off the left wing.

It is at the loss of the wing that the amount of fuel mixing in the air would be greatest. I tend to think the explosion occurred closer to 7,000 than 7,500 because Faret and Wendel said the top of the fireball was at 7,500 as did Meyer. My estimate is that the fireball was 1,000 feet in diameter at this point. If the plane were at the center of this fireball, then ~7,000 is the altitude.

As to the time after the IE that the fireball developed:

For TWA800 to get from 13,800 to 7,000 feet requires time... and it could not have taken a fireball from an explosion at 13,800 with it down to 7,000. That's not possible. Ergo, the initiating event produced little in the way of a fireball. However, for the crippled, nose-less aircraft to reach the altitude where I postulate the fuel/air explosion, it would take a minimum of sixteen seconds if it FLEW in a straight line directly there at the 423 MPH (620 feet/second) we know it was flying at before the IE. I think it followed a ballistic arc, losing forward momentum and speed due to drag... making the time about 8-10 seconds longer.

Because of the time stamp of Sven Faret's radio report to ATC at 8:31:38, I may have to revise the time line to put the explosion a couple of seconds earlier and 6-800 feet higher... but that is still within the ball park... and it is possible the severe change in vector between the two radar sweeps I noted above may have been caused by the explosion itself as well as the loss of the left wing.

Does this explanation help?

105 posted on 05/06/2007 4:17:43 AM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE)
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