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To: zimdog; administrator; All
IN post after post you defend Muslims nazis by denying they existed when it is well documented that they performed gladly in Hitler's armies both in the Balkans and in the former Soviet Unions where even today they agitate and murder children as in Beslan for example You talk about a rarely seen creature: "Muslim Allied soldiers" - so rare that he doesn't exist! Inflating and exaggerating is your forte but that kind of argument cannot pass for logic I'm thankfully sad to inform you. Another strange oddity is to state as fact what is untrue or has been denied by scholars for example the term "nasara" as meaning Christian when it certainly does not. The surah that tells Muslims to destroy Jews and Christians has been used in mosque after mosque to inciting Muslims to violence against the infidel.. that is cleary and undeniably referenced over and over...and yet you twist and obfuscate on this. Wishing it were not so cannot change its sordid truth.

"Muslim heroes who fought the Nazis and won"

WOW!--what a bizarre lie! Five hundred years of Muslim oppression of the Christian population and another decade of brutality at the hands of Muslim Nazi sympathizers and now a resurgent islamic aggression against the balkan peoples and we have sordid statements like this to contend with?

Where does your hate-filled attitude against Balkan Christians originate?

your assault on the very men who fought to keep you free is reprehensible

The men who defend me are not the Osama Bin laden allies and the jihadis you so admire...they are Serbian patriots and allies of the US in WWII who fought for freedom...on the side of freedom not on the side of national socialism and Islam - a combo you find fascinating.

134 posted on 02/16/2007 7:32:56 PM PST by eleni121 ( + En Touto Nika! By this sign conquer! + Constantine the Great))
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To: eleni121
Where does your hate-filled attitude against Balkan Christians originate?

I don't have a hate-filled attitude against Balkan Christians, although I have no tolerance for those who goad old ethnic tensions into the violent 21st century.

139 posted on 02/16/2007 7:57:25 PM PST by zimdog
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To: eleni121
Another strange oddity is to state as fact what is untrue or has been denied by scholars for example the term "nasara" as meaning Christian when it certainly does not.

This is an interesting claim. How do you translate nasara then, if you don't translate it as "Christians"?

Here's Qur'an 2:62:

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَارَى وَالصَّابِئِينَ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحاً فَلَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُون

Now, here are three major translations of that verse. I've highlighted "Christians" for you:

"YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

PICKTHAL: Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

SHAKIR: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the f Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve."

And here's the 9:5 you've mistranslated above. Nasarakuffar is. But the translations don't mention Christians at all.:

فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتَوُاْ الزَّكَاةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ

"YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

I eagerly anticipate your groundbreaking translation.

161 posted on 02/16/2007 9:32:43 PM PST by zimdog
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