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To: Eric Blair 2084
George, thanks for the name calling -- you fit in well with your fellow addicts -- but I think you're out of line here.

Before you respond with some angry four letter words, why don't you tell everyone your learned medical, scientific opinion on the Enstrom/Kabat study.

Utter nonsense. You do realize that the Enstrom/Kabat study was funded by a front-group, called the "Center for Indoor Air Research," which was in turn 100% funded by the United States tobacco industry? I'm shocked! Shocked! that they failed to connect second hand smoke and cancer. You gotta do better than that.

As for specific problems with the study (and believe me, there are many!), well, I'm a rocket scientist, not a public health expert, so I'd refer you to this critical appraisal.

Or your legal opinion on Judge Osteens ruling in the 1993 EPA case.

You mean the 1998 case, not the 1993 case. The EPA study came out in 1993, but the ruling was in '98. As for your Judge Osteen, do you know that, before becoming a judge, he worked as a lobbyist for... YUP! the Tobacco Institute? I can't honestly imagine why he'd support the tobacco industry... Great sources you have!

So now that we're talking studies (and I'll ignore your puerile name-calling, Mr. Orwell), what's your beef with the 2002 survey by the 12 leading public health experts in the world, brought together by the World Health Organization, of every existing passive smoking study which concluded, and I quote:

" there is a statistically significant and consistent association between lung cancer risk in spouses of smokers and exposure to secondhand tobacco smoke from the spouse who smokes. The excess risk is of the order of 20% for women and 30% for men and remains after controlling for some potential sources of bias and confounding."

514 posted on 10/19/2006 9:44:30 PM PDT by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker

"I'm a rocket scientist, not a public health expert"

How on earth are you allowed to breath in the second hand fumes from the rocket fuel. I am tired of paying for your health care resulting in such a dangerous profession. You should be utterly ashamed of the drain you are placing on society.

Let's also ban coal mining, crab fishing, fire departments and construction workers. All pose significant dangers to the employees and cause a drain on society's health program.


516 posted on 10/20/2006 5:04:54 AM PDT by CSM ("When you stop lying about us, we'll stop telling the truth about you." No Truce With Kings)
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To: Alter Kaker

AK, I'm proud of you. That was a lucid, intelligent and well thought out argument. It certainly beats your indoor barbecue grill defense. You'll have to forgive me for the name calling, I mean after all, when somebody brings up Weber grills in an intellectual discussion, you as a rocket scientist would immediately dismiss them as a retard too.

I'm glad that you took a few moments out of your work at NASA to actually research the Enstrom study and Osteen ruling on the web. This makes for a much more interesting and intellectually stimulating debate.

Since I'm not worthy to debate a NASA rocket scientist, Mensa member with a 200 IQ about Dr. Enstrom's epidemiological study, I'll let you debate him since he doesn't need CSM or me to argue on his behalf:

Here's his website:

http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.com/defense.html

In the meantime please enlighten us stupid people about the WHO report that suggested that ETS wasn't harmful, which was covered up and swept under the rug.

Do a little Google search on that one too. In a matter of fact I'll make it easy for you. I'll give you the link from Rush Limbaughs' site in a moment.

When you're done with that. Tell us how this stupidity about SHS passes the scientific test that the rest of us who don't live in a laboratory use; THE LAUGH TEST.

We've all been exposed to smoky environments for our entire lives. Name me one person who you can conclusively prove who has dropped dead from getting a whiff of a cigarette.


533 posted on 10/20/2006 9:25:28 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 ("Government is not the solution to the problem; government is the problem."--Ronald Reagan)
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To: Alter Kaker

AK, I don't want you to waste your valuable time that could be better used in your important work as a rocket scientist looking for the link to the WHO cover up online, so here it is:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1998/03/08/wtob08.html

It's straight from Rush Limbaugh's "essential stack of stuff" if you are a subscriber to Rush 24/7 which I'm sure you are. Great website. I recommend it to all.

Please do us/me a favor in return. Give me the link to the websites where you got your information about Enstrom's study or Osteen's ruling.

I really would like to see it. I mean that sincerely.


534 posted on 10/20/2006 9:42:28 PM PDT by Eric Blair 2084 ("Government is not the solution to the problem; government is the problem."--Ronald Reagan)
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