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To: Donald Meaker; stand watie
When were those treaties with the US signed? During the war or before?

From John Ross:

A treaty with the Confederate States has been entered into and is now submitted for your ratification. In view of the circumstances by which we are surrounded and the provisions of the treaty it will be found to be the most important ever negotiated on behalf of the Cherokee Nation, and will mark a new era in its history. Without attempting a recapitulation of all its provisions, some of its distinguishing features may be briefly enumerated.

The relations of the Cherokee Nation are changed from the United to the Confederate States, with guarantees of protection and a recognition in future negotiations only of its constitutional authorities. The metes and boundaries, as defined by patent from the United States, are continued, and a guarantee given for the neutral land or a fair consideration in case it should be lost by war or negotiation, and an advance thereon to pay the national debt and to meet other contingencies. The payment of all our annuities and the security of all our investments are provided for. The jurisdiction of the Cherokee courts over all members of the nation, whether by birth, marriage, or adoption, is recognized.

Our title to our lands is placed beyond dispute. Our relations with the Confederate States is that of a ward; theirs to us that of a protectorate, with powers restricted. The district court, with a limited civil and criminal jurisdiction, is admitted into the country instead of being located in Van Buren, as was the United States court. This is perhaps one of the most important provisions of the treaty, and secures to our own citizens the great constitutional right of trial by a jury of their vicinage, and releases them from the petty abuses and vexations of the old system, before a foreign jury and in a foreign country. It gives us a Delegate in Congress on the same footing with Delegates from the Territories, by which our interests can be represented; a right which has long been withheld from the nation and which has imposed upon it a large expense and great injustice. It also contains reasonable stipulation in regard to the appointing powers of the agent and in regard to licensed traders. The Cherokee Nation may be called upon to furnish troops for the defense of the Indian country, but is never to be taxed for the support of any war in which the States may be engaged.

The Cherokee people stand upon new ground. Let us hope that the clouds which overspread the land will be dispersed and that we shall prosper as we have never before done. New avenues to usefulness and distinction will be opened to the ingenuous youth of the country. Our rights of self-government will be more fully recognized, and our citizens be no longer dragged off upon flimsy pretexts, to be imprisoned and tried before distant tribunals. No just cause exists for domestic difficulties. Let them be buried with the past and only mutual friendship and harmony be cherished.

Any who fought against the Union were as much traitors as the Southerners who fought against their brothers and their Country. Yes, that includes Davis and Lee, as well as Stand Watie.

Ah, the traitor invective. I'm overwhelmed.

486 posted on 07/11/2006 10:55:44 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket

Of course the so called Confederacy was willing to give away what was not theirs.

Rather a pity so many believed them.


488 posted on 07/11/2006 11:17:19 PM PDT by Donald Meaker (Brother, can you Paradigm?)
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To: rustbucket

Treaty of Hopewell, Nov. 28, 1785
Treaty of Holston, July 2, 1791

Treaty of Philadelphia, Feb. 17, 1792

Treaty of Philadelphia, June 26, 1794

Treaty of Tellico, Oct. 24, 1804

Treaty of Tellico. Oct. 25, 1805

Treaty of Tellico, Oct. 27, 1805

Treaty of Washington, Mar. 22, 1816

Treaty of Chickasaw Council House, Sept. 14, 1816

Treaty of Cherokee Agency, July 8, 1817

Treaty of Washington. Feb. 27, 1819

Treaty of Washington, May 6, 1828

Treaty of Washington, Mar. 14, 1835

Treaty of New Echota, Dec. 29, 1835

Yes, they were before the pretended rebellion. NO, the United States was not a party to the exchange of Southern masters for Northern. One party to a contract can not make unilateral changes. Southern States couldn't unilaterally leave the perpetual Union, nor could they unilaterally change the terms, nor unilaterally break a treaty negotiated with the Union and the Cherokees.

Unless you think I can sell Stand Watie's house to you, for what ever price I care to sell it, without bothering to ask him for permission.


489 posted on 07/11/2006 11:23:38 PM PDT by Donald Meaker (Brother, can you Paradigm?)
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To: rustbucket

It is not invective. It is description.

What else would you call it. Lee himself said that the secession argument was foolishness, it was just rebellion.

Then he knowingly joined that rebellion, because under it he could work his father's slaves for a few years more to pay off his father's debts.

Alas for his greed. He could have had honor, without killing so many of his countrymen.


490 posted on 07/11/2006 11:30:48 PM PDT by Donald Meaker (Brother, can you Paradigm?)
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To: rustbucket
fwiw, i'm UNDERwhelmed with "DM", the crude & VULGAR person. obviously, he is far beneath the "minimal standards expected of gentlemen & ladies in decent society".

free dixie,sw

515 posted on 07/12/2006 9:55:10 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
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