Posted on 06/09/2006 6:16:57 AM PDT by tomzz
And why won't you answer my question about ethics?
What procedure are you talking about restornu?
I suspect that you are not all what you claim to be and so why discuss ethics then?
Like Rush, Ann should exposes her ignorance when she tries to comment on things scientific. She should keep quiet to keep her ignorance hidden.
<< You said you now believe the same as Jefferson. >>
No, I did not. You seem to have a problem, not only with your mind-reading technique -- but with your reading comprehension. You asked me my opinion of Jesus -- and I answered, "Same as Jefferson's."
Jefferson's opinion of Jesus consisted of much more than his belief about his divinity. I agree with his OVERALL assessment.
And why won't you answer my question about ethics?
You sure like to beat around the bush. What then was Jefferson's overall assessment, just so we're clear.
Num. 21:
14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,
Josh. 10:
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Ex. 24:
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient
<< I suspect that you are not all what you claim to be and so why discuss ethics then? >>
I have been scrupulously honest in every word I have said. But no matter. I expected an answer like this. We "heathens" are just lying anyway, and we so far beneath you that you can't even deign to bless us with an agreement on some basic ethical rules of behavior in debate, because, after all, we are just liars and deceivers.
What would it matter if I WERE lying about ALL of this religous stuff? It matters not a bit with respect to the issues under discussion. If I accepted evolution because I hate God and Christians -- that does nothing to provide evidence to support evolution, nor does it do anything to diminish what evidence that IS there.
If I rejected evolution because of my strong religious beliefs -- THAT ALSO does nothing to provide evidence against evolution, or in favor of whatever it is I believe instead.
It is the evidence that matters. And if we can't even agree that presenting the evidence should be done honestly and transparently -- and that we should be quick to admit error when error is proven -- and quick to retract when we are shown to be wrong -- then what kind of people are we, anyway?
I would have thought that this kind of thinking would be quite attractive to a Christian believer -- even if you can't believe I am sincere about it. Why not at least agree that YOUR SIDE should adhere to such ethics? I mean -- if you believe we are incapable of such ethical behavior -- aren't YOU?
<< You sure like to beat around the bush. >>
On the contrary -- I am very direct, to the point of bluntness. I have been exceedingly clear in what I have stated. I just didn't want to write a dissertation on my opinion of Jesus, because that is irrelevant to the issues concerning evolution.
<< What then was Jefferson's overall assessment, just so we're clear. >>
Please -- google it, and read to your heart's content. There may be some details I would not match up with -- but overall, if my memory is correct, I agree with Jefferson. This is not the place for a dissertation on the subject.
And what about my question about ethics? I have answered every one of your questions -- far beyond what I wanted to do, simply because it is off-topic. How about a little reciprocation?
Yes, some unknown books are mentioned in the bible, I agree. But the Lord, to our knowledge, has not preserved them. Perhaps they will be found, or perhaps they were not inspired. Thanks.
<< Ex. 24:
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient >>
Those first two books mentioned in scripture are never SAID to be in scripture. They were just books.
And this third one I requoted above -- that is talking about the Torah -- or at least the part that had been written by then -- primarily the ten commandments and a few dozen other laws. The "covenant" was the covenant at Sinai, where the people said they would obey everything God told them, and Moses had the priests sprinkle blood on the people and on the book, to ratify the covenant.
This is what is being referred to here -- not some lost book.
Something about you just does not ring true to me thus my questions. You apparently do not believe in the divinity of Christ but won't just come out and say it, preferring to have others here continue to believe that you once were a YEC pastor, but now you have seen the light.
But the Lord, to our knowledge, has not preserved them.
Perhaps they will be found, or perhaps they were not inspired. Thanks.
You can't be serious to dismiss this for it was from the Lord!
These are just some of them mention I am sure there is more we are not aware of!
Num. 21: 14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,
1- This would explain the parting of the Red sea and tell us more about the War in Heaven!
Josh. 10: 13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
2- The Earth did stand still and many studing science might find this informative!
Ex. 24: 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient
3- The Book of Covenants where we are instructed on "All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient".
<< You apparently do not believe in the divinity of Christ but won't just come out and say it >>
I used to, but I no longer do. That is PART of my agreement with Jefferson.
<< preferring to have others here continue to believe that you once were a YEC pastor, but now you have seen the light. >>
I don't care if you believe me or not. I am not trying to fool you or anyone else. I did not set out to discuss all these things. What would be the point of trying to fool you into thinking I used to be a YEC and a pastor? I said -- twice -- that YMMV concerning my explanation of my experience among YEC's. YMMV means "your mileage may vary."
Like I said -- my religious beliefs -- or lack of same -- have nothing to do with the actual evidence.
And of course, it would be my position that I have "seen the light." And of course, I realize that it would be your opinion that I have given up on the light and gone to the dark side. It's all a matter of perspective.
Disbelieve every word I have written about my former beliefs, my current beliefs -- all of it. Whether you believe it or not has nothing to do with the issues.
And what about my question about ethics? Are you really going to just continue castigating me as an apostate, which I have agreed to already, while refusing to even agree that what I have describe as good ethics is certainly in line with Christian thought?
Is THAT what all this is about? Avoiding of such a simple question? See -- I do believe you when you state you are a Christian. That is why your behavior with respect to my simple question is so puzzling.
Nice rationalization!
I was just pointing out what is obvious in the context of the passage. If you will read further in the Pentateuch -- the "book of the covenant" is mentioned several more times -- every time in conjunction with the covenant at Sinai. You will even see that they put the "book" in the side of the covenant box.
But -- I have no dog in this hunt. I'll let you guys hash it out between yourselves.
I used to, but I no longer do. That is PART of my agreement with Jefferson.
Thank you. Now that that is settled, I won't be under the mistaken assumption that you are a Christian. Knowing that, we can proceed. As I said, and you contested, the word of God will make clear who is and who is not a true believer.
1Jo 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Just like today before our eyes there had been a lot of revisionism going with the US Consitution as well as what the founders of this great nation have said!
***
<< You apparently do not believe in the divinity of Christ but won't just come out and say it >>
I used to, but I no longer do. That is PART of my agreement with Jefferson.
***
I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. [12] Thomas Jefferson
12. Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816.
http://www.wallbuilders.com/resources/search/detail.php?ResourceID=58
"You apparently do not believe in the divinity of Christ but won't just come out and say it"
"I used to, but I no longer do. That is PART of my agreement with Jefferson."
"Thank you. Now that that is settled, I won't be under the mistaken assumption that you are a Christian."
LOL! Good. Now -- what about my question about ethics?
gotta get to bed. I'll read more of your non-answers tomorrow.
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