[grey_whiskers]

Do you think maybe that presenting behavior in beta male baboons keeps them alive? Do you think staying alive might possibly have an impact on your reproductive chances?

It might, but to what extent? Do the homosexual males later take mates, where otherwise they would have been killed? Or do they stay homosexual? If the former, is that necessarily a good analogy to homosexuality in other species or in other social settings?

That's why you need the controlled studies.

[donh]

It might, but to what extent? Do the homosexual males later take mates,

yes, some do. All the ones that were killed because they preferred death to the dishonor of being the alpha male's sweetie, didn't.

where otherwise they would have been killed? Or do they stay homosexual? If the former, is that necessarily a good analogy to homosexuality in other species or in other social settings?

Bonobo females stay flagrantly faggoty throughout their lives. That doesn't prevent them from getting pregnant, any more than it prevents gay human females from getting pregnant. Faggotry is not an exclusive commitment in most humans, why would you think it would be?

But, you are missing much of the point of the examples I've raised. It isn't necessary to mate at all for homosexual behavior to prove valuable to the genes of one's near relatives. The survival of beta males is advantageous to a tribe in a crowded and stressful environment where warriors are worth keeping around and feeding. And a tribe is full of relatives who all carry part of your genes around inside them. Again, you could look this up under altruist, or Red Queen theory.

That's why you need the controlled studies.

We have plenty of controlled studies. It's called comparative zoology, and its findings are plainly obvious and hard to duck: mammals deploy homosexual behavior as a survival resource which forms distinct and consistent patterns that vary from species to species--much as, for example, human females have done, in discarding estres, and allowing their mates to have their way with them even when impregnation is not the guaranteed result of mating. Since this means most human sex does not bear fruit, recreational sex should have been eliminated from the gene pool long ago, according to your spartan prescription for genetic survival, right?