Evolution's bottom line

National Center for Science Education ^ | 12 May 2006 | Staff

[PatrickHenry]

In his op-ed "Evolution's bottom line," published in The New York Times (May 12, 2006), Holden Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does," and citing several specific examples.

In places where evolution education is undermined, he argues, it isn't only students who will be the poorer for it: "Will Mom or Dad Scientist want to live somewhere where their children are less likely to learn evolution?" He concludes, "Where science gets done is where wealth gets created, so places that decide to put stickers on their textbooks or change the definition of science have decided, perhaps unknowingly, not to go to the innovation party of the future. Maybe that's fine for the grownups who'd rather stay home, but it seems like a raw deal for the 14-year-old girl in Topeka who might have gone on to find a cure for resistant infections if only she had been taught evolution in high school."

Thorp is chairman of the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina.

[Wizy]

Point taken, what I meant to refer to technically the process of Natural Selection as a means/process of Evolution, and yes you are correct variation is technically the right term. I do believe the theories and studies of Natural Selection are valid and useful.

[Havoc]

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 4:7 [Saying], Blessed [are] they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

Romans 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Works does nothing according to Paul, it was and is faith that God traded for righteousness in Abraham's case and in all of ours. Hebrews backs this up, further expanding on it and leaving no path of escape for dissemblers and judaizers in modern drag. Faith, not works.

[Havoc]

Nobody really has a problem with natural selection either. The selection process, though, is a gaurd against drastic major change. It is Quality control. Quality control doesn't turn Microwaves into helicopters. It ensures quality microwaves and nothing but. That is not unique to big "E" evolution either. So, nothing you reference makes evolution anything useful to science..

[Oztrich Boy]

First, the prophet referred to in the Cretan example is seen in context not as a Cretan but "those of the circumcision" (Jews).

False. Paul's phrasing "The Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies." is a dirct cite from the peom Cretica, by the Cretan philosopher Epimenides (fl. 600 BCE).

[metmom]

Eph 2: 8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[Wizy]

Not evolution...Natural Selection does, as you pointed out earlier it can answer questions regarding variation of species, which is scientifically useful.

[donh]

The oft-repeated theory that he was carrying out Jesus's unfinished work, by eliminating the Jews? Yea, that probably had nothing whatever to do with his extremely catholic upbringing.

It most certainly did not.

It most certainly did.

Hitler Praying

Hitler leaving the Marine Church in Wilhelmshaven

Hitler's rendition of Mary with Child

The cross Hitler had placed in front of his lodge at Eagle's Nest

Nazi school poster, the inscription reads" "When you see a cross, remember the gruesome murder of the Jews on Golgotha..."

Never did the Church teach that killing Jews was Christ's work. If you want to claim otherwise, please provide a source.

You, regarding the Spanish Inquisition, and sephardic jews who were pretending to be Catholics.

Or do you mean the influence of the catholic priests the holy see permitted, throughout the war, to accompany the SS troops on their ghetto raids?

Please substantiate this claim. I'm not about to take your word for it.

Chaplain with machine gun unit

Brown Shirt army unit attending mass

Nazi Chaplain's visor

Why is this so hard to believe? Do you have access to some secret document in which the Pope excommunicated Hitler, or excommunicating any priests that accompanied Nazi troops? You think there's something extraordinary about priests accompanying army units of Christian countries into battle?

[Almagest]

<< Almagest...I would be curious to see your Calvinist twist, that you mentioned...I for one would like to see it... >>


Howdy. I spent twenty years trying to believe Calvinism -- and another twenty after that trying to defend myself against Calvinists. I got really tired of it after a while.

Judging by some of the reactions in here -- I think I will send it to you privately.

Cheers.

[Havoc]

None of the apostles other than condemned works based salvation as spurious. Doing good things for people may happen as a sign of your faith; but, it does zero to save you or to aid in salvation. This is the essence of the Gospel. Catholicism Curses and damns to hell anyone who would believe this (Council of Trent and Vatican II). Catholicism has another Christ, another salvation and is a cult by definition.
It is a religion. It just isn't Christian.

[Elsie]

By faith and only by faith.

TRUE Christianity says: "Jesus!"

FALSE Christianity says: "Jesus; plus something else."

[Oztrich Boy]

for someone not knowing how to spell "ostrich,"

I could explian my nick, but that would involve recounting a long and acrimonious debate on gun control with the notorious Cazart on the Salon board, the different board paractices (nick ot real name),puns and a lot more. Suffice to say I have my reasons for nick.

[donh]

Interesting-- what do you think the motivation of those scientists is? Do you most of them have similar reasons for buying into those alternatives?

The are willing to entertain ideas outside the competent reach of science, just like everyone else.

I'm surprised that you're surpised that Miller would take heat buying into fine-tuning, but mayve things are just that much more open than I realize.

I'm utterly skeptical that Miller would take any heat whatsoever for believing in fine-tuning. Like many scientists, he's a staunch Catholic. Where do you get this stuff?

[Havoc]

Bingo. Top marks!

[Oztrich Boy]

don't be picky about my spelling.

I did not allude to your spelling. I was explaining why I rebuke Cretans sharply on these boards. It's for their own good.

I am

[donh]

........................................................... THAT is why I was talking about Russian birthrates. It is true (see post 616 for example) other topics concerning homosexuality came up, (somewhere you referred me to Red Queen strategies), and I will be glad to discuss them if you wish, but these were NOT the only references to homosexuality in our discussion.

I have no idea what this post was about, but please don't consider that an invitation to explain it in any great length--if you have a simple coherent argument to make concerning Red Queen strategies, I'll be happy to entertain it.

[donh]

Went back through my posts and don't see *troll* anywhere in it. Can you cite that?

No, but I don't find any ref. I made to "troll" either. Are you sure one of us wasn't inadvertantly talking to the wrong person?

[csense]

[Havoc]

Seems they begged for the defense and ran off to avoid it.. lol.