Posted on 03/27/2006 9:53:41 AM PST by Pukin Dog
Just a little dose of reality for some of you going nuts over the Immigration issue, because there is NO chance that you will win on the border enforcement issue. No chance whatsoever. Only after a migrant worker program passes, making most of these illegal aliens legal, is there any chance at all to have meaningful border enforcement.
Bush is not running for office anymore, but the Republican Congress is in need of a big victory in November. This issue will kill our chances to maintain the majority, and knowing that, Bush will likely veto any bill making illegal immigration a felony, if that bill does not include the migrant worker program (call it amnesty if you want) needed to hold onto Business and Hispanic support for the Republican Party.
The Illegal Immigration Genie is out of the bottle, folks. You can’t stuff her back in without losing the House and/or Senate in November. Pragmatic minds will rule in the end, and that is a bitter pill you best swallow now.
FReepers can’t will elections for the Republican Party, but we sure can go a long way towards losing them, if we can’t put our common sense ahead of our passions on this issue. I live in San Diego County, and I see the problems with illegal immigration on a daily basis.
Whether you like it or not, much of the commerce of this country does depend on these folks to do jobs that Americans won’t do for the prevailing wage.
So, you have a choice, you can demand the border enforcement bills on their own, or you can swallow hard and consider everything you will lose if we turn off 10-15% of the electorate, in addition to the business community that depends on these workers. Yeah, they broke the law, and so do the people who hire them.
So what?
Yeah, I said it, SO WHAT? The time to be worried about that was when there were REAL Republican majorities in the Border States. It is too late now. This is a problem that cannot be solved, but only managed.
It is possible to be right and stupid at the same time. Pete Wilson tried this a few years ago, got all kinds of support for it. It passed, and Pete Wilson is gone. Then a judge overturned it anyway. That is exactly what you can expect to happen with these current bills as well. Some judge will put an injunction on enforcement, but by the time that happens, we will be knee-deep into impeachment proceeding under a Democrat Congress.
Bush won’t let that happen, neither will smarter members of the Senate and House. You won’t win, you can’t win, but you can shoot yourself and the Republican party in the head (even if you are not a member) by pursuing a program that does not include amnesty or whatever you want to call it.
We lost this one.
Get over it. There are bigger battles ahead.
That is a problem with us pubs - we tend to act like a dog with a bone.
Sometimes we need to remember that the mighty oak is the tree that can still be standing after the storm BECAUSE it was smart enough to bend a little.
So, folks, you want 3/4's of the pie - or demand all and lose all?
(hey, Pukin, you should copy paste this into every post on the issue - paste it over and over)
exactly.
Gonna do that and get the fence up and keep any more from coming in - (a problem that has been going on for decades) before elections?
This tendency to never bend an inch is the one thing that loses us many the race. It's the same as, over and over, we put up candidates, not because they are the best or have the better chance of winning but because "it's their turn."
If we could tone down these two systemic problems in the party - we'd be so far out ahead, we'd be on our way back in
Is it a matter of "principles" or knowing when to bend a little in order to still be in charge, to feint to the side a bit, and win the battle in the long run...
Giving up the battlefield has never been much of a strategy
Yep
Hmmm - seems Pukin stated his premise in a reasoned, level way -
maybe you're referring to some of the answers?
you noticed that too? ;o)
Reading through these responses, I have to keep reminding myself I haven't somehow slipped into a DU site
It's the last straw for a party and a president who had the chance to truly make a difference for the future of America.
Instead, the bush legacy will be one of a sell out to the globalist profiteers who will gleefully continue their looting of the US economy.
Do you want to be right, or do you want to win?
Right.
There is no alternative.
Perhaps you missed the part where Pukin wrote: "
"I live in San Diego County, and I see the problems with illegal immigration on a daily basis"
perfect example of what appears to be a lot of knee-jerk thinking going on here.
It reminds me of the actions/words of the libs that are more a result of hate driven response that clouds rational thinking
- it was getting mighty lonesome in here . Have to plow through a lot of threads to find the few that are being written by someone that doesn't seem to have steam coming outta their ears :o(
Sure hope the % of folk like you and Xjarhead and pukin are in the majority come election.
US: We stand together or we fall apart."m.t.
Together with whom? The President and his illegal-loving, Constitution-ignoring, big-spending cohorts have chosen decisively and unambiguously not to stand with me, despite my having been a solid voter and financial contributor. When I find who I get to stand together with, believe me, there will be none more loyal.
Are you trying to impress us with your intelligent, rational thinking processes?
And if you shoot yourself in the foot and give the field to the enemy - thereby loosing the war...what have you won?
Dems will win if we don't hang together - too much of this debate, even here tonight, is being decided in irrational anger which leads one to shoot themselves in the foot.
We have a much bigger problem that we will lose on, forever, if we let the dems win while we have a hissy fit.
You want us to shoot ourselves in the foot, let the libs win, let them pull out of the middle east - then get ready for a world plunged into a war like we've never seen - and we will have much of the battles nd bloodshed right here on our home-front.
We have a BIGGER enemy on the flanks right now, folks.
"US: Together we stand or we fall apart" m.t.
Amen
Are you suggesting we should pretend it isn't a factor?
If you want to go the low route, shall we talk about people wanting illegals here so that they can save money on lawn care and get home construction done on the cheap, rather than hire Americans who have to pay taxes and don't live 25 to a house?
It's not racism to not want to be overrun by a foreign population and a foreign culture. If you want to prevent a productive discussion of the merits of various policies, please continue to play the race card. The reality is that legal Hispanics are first in line to want the illegals out, because they're the first to be mistaken for one.
>>Balkanization will be the norm in this country one day.<<
In California, we are already there !
A trend that was obvious since 1991 !
Wrong metaphor. Yours assumes you should never have been on the battlefield in the first place. You also conveniently ignored the other part of my question. Once the Republicans have finished giving up every principle, just to save their precious "party," how will they be any different than their opposition? At that point it simply becomes a matter of which football team you like or what color shirt you wear.
Machiavellianism and triangulation are for people with weak minds and weaker character.
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