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To: gobucks
Very impressive 2000+ post thread, now in the Smokey Back Room. But I wonder, are you any closer to getting your questioned answered that was in post #1?

Thanks for your posting and the links, which I've read with interest.

To be honest, I came to regret posting this article when I saw some of the flaming that erupted, although there has been some worthwhile info and insights as well.

As for the 'Cartesian' split; it is an interesting essay on philosophy, but as some posters on that thread have noted, it doesn't go very far. Insofar as such a 'split' occurred, it did not do so because of a philosophical decision (by Descartes or anyone else), but arose throught the continuing successes of materialistic explanations over supernatural ones: where we previously saw the actions of gods in thunder, earthquakes, and comets, science replaced irrational fears with testable truths. One does not (or at least, should not) lend science credibility as an act of 'faith,' (as some have claimed does happen), but neither can one reasonably deny science its due: its record of success is remarkable. I would not characterise this as buying into the nature of science 'hook, line, and sinker,' but simply as an acknowledgement of science's inconvertible achievements.

Now, if you wish to argue that there is meaningful knowledge and indeed "truth" which is not accessible to science, I would utterly agree with you--and I think you might be surprised by the number of scientists who are of similar mind. But that is not at all the same as attempting to change the proven and successful methodology of science, particularly when there is no agreed methodological alternative that delivers results.

As for your essay on G.U.T.S.; first, the strength of your marriage is certainly laudable, and your courage in writing here is to be commended. I deeply hold, as you do, an unshakeable belief in the sanctity of marriage, and consider my wife and children the greatest blessings which has been bestowed upon me--but this is a matter of faith, not science for me! But I am afraid I do not at all see the bearing your essay has on the scientific validity of ToE

I still think the fight in the USA over science and Religion is really about sex and how it is experienced. And I really think the Europe has experienced the ...ahem, history, it has b/c of a LACK of attention to this issue.

Without wishing to be provocative, I will say that I do get the impression, from some postings (not yours) that some unhealthy obsession with this topic is indeed one of the culprits. Someone (can't recall whom, will try to run the quote down) once defined a Puritain as 'someone who was desperately worried that somewhere, someone was enjoying himself.'

As for the 'history' experienced by Europe: far, far too much European history is in fact the history of religious wars of intolerance, and it rumbles on and on. Belatedly, we are finally, in the UK, taking measures against mullahs who have openly preached murder, as they are the current threat, but one cannot really find a period in the last 1000 years where Europe has not been filled with hatred wearing the mask of religion. That does not at all undermine my own Christian faith, which is perfectly robust, but it does give me meaningful challenges in how I live my faith.

Thanks again for your posting, a thought-provoking one amidst a lot of smoke and dust!

2,238 posted on 02/28/2006 5:39:22 AM PST by ToryHeartland
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To: ToryHeartland
To be honest, I came to regret posting this article when I saw some of the flaming that erupted,

You develop a thick skin real quick from these threads. The flaming is painfully regular and predictable.

2,239 posted on 02/28/2006 7:45:00 AM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: ToryHeartland
... amidst a lot of smoke and dust!

I hope there was SOME Light and Heat as well! ;^)

2,240 posted on 02/28/2006 9:07:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: ToryHeartland
but one cannot really find a period in the last 1000 years where Europe has not been filled with hatred wearing the mask of religion.

Consider Elsie's present apparent stance: that we hate jews because God and the Bible calls for it, and gosh darn, much as we love them, there's nothing we can do. Maybe it's not a mask.

2,243 posted on 02/28/2006 9:56:57 AM PST by donh
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To: ToryHeartland; gobucks
But I am afraid I do not at all see the bearing your essay has on the scientific validity of ToE

Permit me to summarise:

I've already notified the appropriate authorities after Gobucks proposed his Theory of Marital Satisfaction to me about a year ago, and as soon as they have video evidence of Gobucks new-found marital bliss, along with a signed deposition from his bride, his Nobel Prize will be in the post.

2,270 posted on 03/04/2006 11:57:06 AM PST by Thatcherite (More abrasive blackguard than SeaLion or ModernMan)
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