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Churches urged to back evolution
British Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 20 February 2006 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.

Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

'Who's kidding whom?'

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

Some have already heeded the warning.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

Economic risk

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT

© BBC MMVI


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bearingfalsewitness; crevolist; darwin; evolution; freeperclaimstobegod; goddooditamen; godknowsthatiderslie; idoogabooga; ignoranceisstrength; intelligentdesign; liarsforthelord; ludditesimpletons; monkeygod; scienceeducation; soupmyth; superstitiousnuts; youngearthcultists
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To: nmh

I am a NON practicing Catholic.

I present it as making more sense than Fundamentalist pap.


101 posted on 02/20/2006 8:11:02 AM PST by Vaquero (time again for the Crusades.)
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To: The_Victor
"Teaching children to think critically NEVER threatens literacy. "

So would you support teaching the holocaust denial perspective in history classes or how about homosexuality in health classes? Giving them a fair hearing and teaching them side by side with conventional theories would only promote our children's ability to think critically, right?
102 posted on 02/20/2006 8:12:12 AM PST by ndt
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To: Vaquero

Your best bet is to ignore these fallible mortals as I do and believe what God states. I don't know who their god is but MY GOD, did exactly what He stated in Genesis and referred to in other books of the Bible. Perhaps you will reconsider, who you believe too? ;)

All that they are doing is conforming to the world and that is NOT what we are to do besides the evidence doesn't support evolution.

Rom.12:2

[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


103 posted on 02/20/2006 8:15:03 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God))
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To: ndt

So you are equating Creationism, Homosexuality, Holoccaust Denial, Flat Earthism, Astrology, etc.?


OK, I can see that point of view.


104 posted on 02/20/2006 8:15:10 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: doc30

My reply was a laundry list of arguments people might use, not necessarily the ones I personally endorse.


105 posted on 02/20/2006 8:16:01 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: proxy_user
Most scientists are liberals who support our opponents.

If this is so in the US--and I cannot say that it isn't so--then the situation is indeed different there. I do not doubt that in the UK the preponderance of scientists are of a conservative inclination, at least within the classic disciplines (chemisty, physics, biology) rather than the "social" sciences. I'll try and run down a source for my assertion here and post it--I'm sure polls of voting intention by career have been published, let me see what I can find

106 posted on 02/20/2006 8:16:18 AM PST by ToryHeartland
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To: Vaquero

Sound more like Denial of Reality other that anything else.


107 posted on 02/20/2006 8:16:29 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: ToryHeartland

in the UK, all schools include RE (religious education) which covers an introductian introduction to the major religions of the world and their associated scriptures, with particular emphasis on Western Christianity.

I don't think it is unconstitutional in the US to teach such a class in public schools, provided it isn't biased towards a particular religion and provided it doesn't advocate religion in general. It would be okay to teach the history of religion as a history class. However, that's not what the religious fundamentalists want.

The enemies of the Theory of Evolution really don't want Evolution taught at all, and they want to proselytize their own version of Christianity in public schools. They also want science subservient to religion.

108 posted on 02/20/2006 8:18:23 AM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: ToryHeartland; PatrickHenry

In the US among scientists that I know (and that's a fair number), I'd say the split as to Right/Left is about the same as the general population.

I pinged PH because he may have some hard numbers.

The post is totally unsubstantiated drivel.


109 posted on 02/20/2006 8:20:22 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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To: ToryHeartland
I do not doubt that in the UK the preponderance of scientists are of a conservative inclination, at least within the classic disciplines (chemisty, physics, biology) rather than the "social" sciences.

That's probably the case in the US also. Science appeals to the conservative mind for the same reasons that free enterprise does. It's reality-based, it focuses on what works, it rejects failed concepts, and it produces results. Both science and free enterprise flourish where there is a minimum of governmental interference. There's nothing socialistic, communistic, fascistic, or atheistic about science; and there's nothing American about theocracy. American conservatism, which seeks to preserve and build on the wisdom of the Founders, is inherently rational at its intellectual base.

Having said that, however, I suspect that many scientists don't actually vote like conservatives, even if they are conservative by nature. It may be because so many Luddites tend to dominate the dialogue, which causes an understandable revulsion against any movement which appears to be so bone-headed.

110 posted on 02/20/2006 8:23:33 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: ToryHeartland

It all comes from the mistaken notion that each of us is somehow important in the scheme of things; the sooner we get over our love affair with authority and get back to the business of personal survival at whatever cost, the quicker we can rid ourselves of the fools among us. </sarc>


111 posted on 02/20/2006 8:23:46 AM PST by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: ToryHeartland

You state in your post: "Like other British Conservatives, I look to the United States as our one great ally and the world's greatest defender of liberty, but I do not understand why such an enlightened nation is embroiled in a senseless science vs. religion turmoil--and even more puzzled that some whom on other issues I recognise as fellow conservatives are, on this topic, so vehement in their assault on science. I, and many, many others here are staunch defenders and admirers of America, but when it comes to this controversy over Darwin, we just don't get it. Intelligent explanations of the real issue here would be appreciated!"

I think you'll find that the reason this is much more of an issue in the US than in the UK and the rest of Europe is that you are much further along in the post-Christian culture.


112 posted on 02/20/2006 8:23:46 AM PST by Binghamton_native
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To: nmh
MY GOD, did exactly what He stated in Genesis and referred to in other books of the Bible. Perhaps you will reconsider, who you believe too? ;) a leap of faith. I do not see the evidence. why do you believe this book? Can you supply proof????
113 posted on 02/20/2006 8:24:06 AM PST by Vaquero (time again for the Crusades.)
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To: ndt
So would you support teaching the holocaust denial perspective in history classes or how about homosexuality in health classes?

No, neither of the issues you raise are scientific. Competing theories in science require examination, and good science will win out. It is part of teaching critical thinking, which was, is, and will always be part of any science curriculum.

114 posted on 02/20/2006 8:24:58 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: ToryHeartland

But see also post 105. It doesn't have to be true for some to allege it and convince others.


115 posted on 02/20/2006 8:26:38 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: ToryHeartland

There are small groups of Christians who believe that the first couple of chapters of Genesis should be interpretted literally.

Once Genesis is interpretted literally, you can calculate the age of the earth. It is on the order of 6000 years old. Thus, the Bible becomes a history book.

===

There is a small group of atheist scientists who believe that science can be used to disprove God.

They have latched onto the literal interpretation of Genesis and offer evolution as proof that there is no God. They now defend evolution as a fact rather than a theory thats full of holes. Evolution has become the central tenet of their "anti-God" religion.

===

Most of America does not interpret Genesis literally and thinks both groups are very vocal nuts.


116 posted on 02/20/2006 8:28:54 AM PST by kidd
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To: The_Victor; ndt
Teaching children to think critically NEVER threatens literacy. Scientific truth must be vetted against competing eplainations, it is part of the process of arriving at the truth. Creationism is quickly dispelled with scientific evidence, and the showing this in a science classroom is always worth the effort.

Critical analysis of evolution is something to be feared in school rooms.
See this thread:

False Fear Epidemic over Critical Analysis of Evolution Spreads to Wisconsin

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1574165/posts

117 posted on 02/20/2006 8:29:24 AM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: furball4paws
"So you are equating Creationism, Homosexuality, Holocaust Denial, Flat Earthism, Astrology, etc.? OK, I can see that point of view."

I wouldn't say they are fully comparable, but they all have aspects that are pertinent to the matter at hand. I threw in holocaust denial because it's a good example of a theory that doesn't fit the facts but still finds rabid support in a segment of the population. I added homosexuality because, I'm 99% sure the poster does not support "the controversy being taught" despite his claim that it is always promotes literacy and by extension that is a good thing.
118 posted on 02/20/2006 8:30:37 AM PST by ndt
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To: The_Victor
It is part of teaching critical thinking, which was, is, and will always be part of any science curriculum.

...not sure you can say that anymore.

119 posted on 02/20/2006 8:32:28 AM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: The_Victor

Competing scientific theories - fine, but Creationism hardly fills the bill. Besides, the question is about public schools. Is any high school student sufficiently based in science, especially biology, to do more than a cursory examination of anything? I think not.


120 posted on 02/20/2006 8:32:30 AM PST by furball4paws (Awful Offal)
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