""This is a blatant lie.""
Please. friend, check the dictionary definition of "lie" again before you open the door.
Demonstrate the power of the "scientific" process of which you call "Evolution" and then we will all be impressed.
Until Evolutionists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
But so far, the only human being who demonstrated the power of creation -- i.e. the power over life and death -- was Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
And He was God.
And THAT is what this thread is really all about. It's the inherent, unspoken argument that stirs people up over Evolution. Sorry.
[Ichneumon:] This is a blatant lie.
[Californiajones:] Please. friend, check the dictionary definition of "lie" again before you open the door.
I'm familiar with the meaning of the word. The claim as written is still a blatant lie, whether it's your own or whether you're innocently repeating someone else's.
If you hadn't included the word "attempts", I would have described it merely as wrong, or at least a matter of differing conclusion based perhaps on different initial premises.
But with the inclusion of the word "attempts", it moves it into the realm of a blatant falsehood. Since theories themselves do not "attempt" anything -- they have no intentionality -- the use of the word "attempts" quite clearly tries to impute a motive to the originator or maintainers of the theory, an agenda for which they employ the theory. And this accusation is quite simply false. It's a slanderous falsehood. It is a lie.
And looking at the replies you received, I now note that I am hardly alone in arriving at that conclusion.
Perhaps you were just expressing yourself extraordinarily poorly (and all I can go on is what you actually post), but the statement *as written* is a blatant falsehood, one that the originator either had to know was false (if he had actually looked into the matter), or was putting forth in the knowledge that he had not bothered to verify its truth before presenting it as such.
It is also a common slander from anti-evolutionists, reinforcing the likelihood that it was intended in the way it appears.
Demonstrate the power of the "scientific" process of which you call "Evolution" and then we will all be impressed.
No problem,
See also:
The Origins of Order: Self Organization and Selection in Evolution. By Stuart Kauffman, S. A. (1993) Oxford University Press, NY, ISBN: 0195079515.Compositional genomes: Prebiotic information transfer in mutually catalytic noncovalent assemblies
Eigen M, and Schuster P, The hypercycle. A principle of natural self-organization. Springer-Verlag, isbn 3-540-09293, 1979
The origin of genetic information: viruses as models
Compositional genomes: prebiotic information transfer in mutually catalytic noncovalent assemblies
Stadler PF, Dynamics of autocatalytic reaction networks. IV: Inhomogeneous replicator networks. Biosystems, 26: 1-19, 1991
Lee DH, Severin K, and Ghadri MR. Autocatalytic networks: the transition from molecular self-replication to molecular ecosystems. Curr Opinion Chem Biol, 1, 491-496, 1997
Lee DH, Severin K, Yokobayashi Y, and Ghadiri MR, Emergence of symbiosis in peptide self-replication through a hypercyclic network. Nature, 390: 591-4, 1997
Apolipoprotein AI Mutations and Information
Creationist Claim CB102: Mutations are random noise; they do not add information.
Evolution of biological information
Evolution of biological complexity
Evolution and Information: The Nylon Bug
Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection
Gene duplications in evolution of archaeal family B DNA polymerases
Koch, AL: Evolution of antibiotic resistance gene function. Microbiol Rev 1981, 45:355378.
Selection in the evolution of gene duplications
Velkov, VV: Gene amplification in prokaryotic and eukaryotic systems. Genetika 1982, 18:529543.
Romero, D & Palacios, R: Gene amplification and genomic plasticity in prokaryotes. Annu Rev Genet 1997, 31:91111.
Stark, GR & Wahl, GM: Gene amplification. Annu Rev Biochem 1984, 53:447491.
Reinbothe, S, Ortel, B, & Parthier, B: Overproduction by gene amplification of the multifunctional arom protein confers glyphosate tolerance to a plastid-free mutant of Euglena gracilis. Mol Gen Genet 1993, 239:416424.
Gottesman, MM, Hrycyna, CA, Schoenlein, PV, Germann, UA, & Pastan, I: Genetic analysis of the multidrug transporter. Annu Rev Genet 1995, 29:607649.
Schwab, M: Oncogene amplification in solid tumors. Semin Cancer Biol 1999, 9:319325.
Widholm, JM, Chinnala, AR, Ryu, JH, Song, HS, Eggett, T, & Brotherton, JE: Glyphosate selection of gene amplification in suspension cultures of three plant species. Physiol Plant 2001, 112:540545.
Otto, E, Young, JE, & Maroni, G: Structure and expression of a tandem duplication of the Drosophila metallothionein gene. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1986, 83:60256029.
Maroni, G, Wise, J, Young, JE, & Otto, E: Metallothionein gene duplications and metal tolerance in natural populations of Drosophila melanogaster. Genetics 1987, 117:739744.
Kondratyeva, TF, Muntyan, LN, & Karvaiko, GI: Zinc-resistant and arsenic-resistant strains of Thiobacillus ferrooxidans have increased copy numbers of chromosomal resistance genes. Microbiology 1995, 141:11571162.
Tohoyama, H, Shiraishi, E, Amano, S, Inouhe, M, Joho, M, & Murayama, T: Amplification of a gene for metallothionein by tandem repeat in a strain of cadmium-resistant yeast cells. FEMS Microbiol Lett 1996, 136:269273.
Sonti, RV & Roth, JR: Role of gene duplications in the adaptation of Salmonella typhimurium to growth on limiting carbon sources. Genetics 1989, 123:1928.
Brown, CJ, Todd, KM, & Rosenzweig, RF: Multiple duplications of yeast hexose transport genes in response to selection in a glucose-limited environment. Mol Biol Evol 1998, 15:931942.
Hastings, PJ, Bull, HJ, Klump, JR, & Rosenberg, SM: Adaptive amplification: an inducible chromosomal instability mechanism. Cell 2000, 103:723731.
Tabashnik, BE: Implications of gene amplification for evolution and management of insecticide resistance. J Econ Entomol 1990, 83:11701176.
Lenormand, T, Guillemaud, T, Bourguet, D, & Raymond, M: Appearance and sweep of a gene duplication: adaptive response and potential for new functions in the mosquito Culex pipiens. Evolution 1998, 52:17051712.
Guillemaud, T, Raymond, M, Tsagkarakou, A, Bernard, C, Rochard, P, & Pasteur, N: Quantitative variation and selection of esterase gene amplification in Culex pipiens. Heredity 1999, 83:8799.
Until Evolutionists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Wow, what an enormously vapid and idiotic assertion. Let's try that in other contexts, where it's equally (in)valid, and see how dumb it sounds, shall we?
Until meteorologists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.Nope, still sounds really stupid, and transparently false.Until automotive engineers can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until rocket scientists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until civil engineers can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until radiologists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until agronomists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until endocrinologists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until vulcanologists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
Until botanists can create something out of nothing, their "science" means nothing.
How about this one: Until Jehovists can create something out of nothing, their "religion" means nothing. After all, it's the *theists* who avow that something *was* created out of nothing, and yet they can't demonstrate that this process ever actually can or even did occur. Science, on the other hand, leaves that as an open question -- makes no conclusions about whether such a process was possible or even necessary. Perhaps there always *was* "something" and never "nothing". Or perhaps "something" is, ultimately, nothingness after all:
"There are something like ten million million million million million million million million million million million million million million (1 with eighty [five] zeroes after it) particles in the region of the universe that we can observe. Where did they all come from? The answer is that, in quantum theory, particles can be created out of energy in the form of particle/antiparticle pairs. But that just raises the question of where the energy came from. The answer is that the total energy of the universe is exactly zero. The matter in the universe is made out of positive energy. However, the matter is all attracting itself by gravity. Two pieces of matter that are close to each other have less energy than the same two pieces a long way apart, because you have to expend energy to separate them against the gravitational force that is pulling them together. Thus, in a sense, the gravitational field has negative energy. In the case of a universe that is approximately uniform in space, one can show that this negative gravitational energy exactly cancels the positive energy represented by the matter. So the total energy of the universe is zero."Regardless where "something" may or may not have come from, evolution still *works* and demonstrably has happened and was involved in, at the very least, a great deal of the diversity of modern life. Similarly, meteorology still works no matter how or where the atmosphere may have originated.-- Steven Hawking, 1988, "1988. A Brief History of Time", p. 129
In any case, I *have* made something out of nothing -- I have written many computer programs which in no way existed in any form before I created them from scratch. So perhaps you could lay to rest your goofy "requirement".
But so far, the only human being who demonstrated the power of creation -- i.e. the power over life and death -- was Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Oh? What's your evidence for this claim? "I have a book that says so and the book says it's accurate on that issue" is circular reasoning. Even by the book's account, you couldn't even demonstrate that he was actually dead and returned from the dead, as opposed to, say, the kind of "presumed dead but later awoke from a comatose state much to everyone's surprise" cases which were actually quite common before the advent of modern medicine and diagnostic tools. For that matter, even today I read about 2-3 similar cases a year, in areas where modern medicine aren't readily available.
And THAT is what this thread is really all about.
For *you* it may be. For *us* it's about trying to get people to stop telling lies about science and the people who practice it or advocate it.
It's the inherent, unspoken argument that stirs people up over Evolution. Sorry.
There are plenty of Christians who have no problem with this alleged "clash" between science and their religion. There's nothing "inherent" in modern biology which fuels such a clash. It's the touchy, defensive beliefs of a *fraction* of all religious people who get their shorts in a knot over scientists daring to (*gasp*) make their findings public and (*horrors*!) teaching science in school.