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To: freedumb2003
Actually, our understanding of physics is already in the Bible. If Renaissance thinkers had bothered to read Isaiah, they would have noticed that God said that He holds up the "sphere of the earth" -- completely debunking that flat earth theory. It is said that Columbus took out his ships upon that scripture alone.

Another interesting thing is that the Book of Revelation says that in the new heaven, the streets are made of pure gold, transparent as glass.

Well it was only in the last few decades that we found out that if you purify gold to its most pure state -- the yellow in gold is actually an impurity -- white gold is actually purer than yellow gold -- purified gold is transparent.

So I'd say that the Bible is pretty much ahead of the ball on physics and science.

Strawman arguments, just for the record, are not lies. They are obfuscations or bad analogies at worst. Lying would be stating what I know not to be true as true. Haven't done that... I just think the spirit behind EvoThink is not spiritually benign. But that is a theological discussion that weighs the bios and words and deeds and beliefs of EvoThink's proponents -- following how John tells us to "Test all the spirits, for not everything is of God"" and not for this thread.
1,626 posted on 02/16/2006 10:45:31 AM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Californiajones
Actually, our understanding of physics is already in the Bible. If Renaissance thinkers had bothered to read Isaiah, they would have noticed that God said that He holds up the "sphere of the earth" -- completely debunking that flat earth theory. It is said that Columbus took out his ships upon that scripture alone. Another interesting thing is that the Book of Revelation says that in the new heaven, the streets are made of pure gold, transparent as glass. Well it was only in the last few decades that we found out that if you purify gold to its most pure state -- the yellow in gold is actually an impurity -- white gold is actually purer than yellow gold -- purified gold is transparent.

I've been waiting for you to come up with the Columbus thing. You've come up with many of the other sillier creationist canards so it was only a matter of time.

Educated men the world over knew long before the Columbus that the world not flat. Anyone living near the sea can see this easily. The ancient Greeks calculated the size of the sphere to a reasonable degree of accuracy. Columbus was badly wrong about the size of the globe, despite the availability of techniques for calculating it; he hoped to reach China, and would have starved with his crew long before getting there. Luckily for him the Americas got in the way. I'm not familiar with the Isaiah passage that you refer to, though I've seen references to an Isaiah passage that refer to a circle, a completely different thing from a globe. Numerous other biblical passages are consonant with belief in a flat earth. For example Satan takes Christ to the top of a high mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of the world. Not possible on a sphere. Indeed the Bible gives no clue of the scale of the world at all. Outside a small area of the middle east nothing really seems to exist at all in it.

Purified gold is not transparent. That is simply nonsense that someone has fed you. Sorry to disappoint you.

So I'd say that the Bible is pretty much ahead of the ball on physics and science.

Um no, its full of scientific error. Like references to stars "falling to earth". And bats referred to as a kind of bird.

1,628 posted on 02/16/2006 11:23:02 AM PST by Thatcherite (More abrasive blackguard than SeaLion or ModernMan)
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To: Californiajones
white gold is actually purer than yellow gold

White gold is only about 75% gold. It's mixed with other metals, including nickel. (As someone who is allergic to nickel, I can attest to this firsthand!)

If Renaissance thinkers had bothered to read Isaiah, they would have noticed that God said that He holds up the "sphere of the earth"

Isaiah did not mention a "sphere." It mentions a "circle." (Isiah 40:22). The Earth, of course, is neither a circle nor a sphere.

1,635 posted on 02/16/2006 11:49:06 AM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Californiajones
Well it was only in the last few decades that we found out that if you purify gold to its most pure state -- the yellow in gold is actually an impurity -- white gold is actually purer than yellow gold -- purified gold is transparent.

Not true.

From here:

http://webexhibits.org/causesofcolor/9.html

"When light falls onto a piece of iron, the electrons below the Fermi surface can also become excited into higher energy levels in the band by absorbing the energy from the light, as in Fig. 19, producing electron-hole pairs. The light is so intensely absorbed that it can penetrate to a depth of only a few hundred atoms, typically less than a single wavelength. Since the metal is a conductor of electricity, this absorbed light, which is, after all, an electromagnetic wave, will induce alternating electric currents on the metal surface. These currents immediately re-emit the light out of the metal, thus providing strong reflection of a polished metal surface."

"The efficiency of this process depends on the selection rules that apply to the atomic orbitals from which the energy band had formed. If the efficiency of absorption and reemission is approximately equal at all optical energies, then the different colors in white light will be reflected equally well, thus leading to the "silvery" color of polished iron and silver surfaces. However, if the efficiency decreases with increasing energy, as is the case for gold and copper, the reduced reflectivity at the blue end of the spectrum results in yellow and reddish colors, respectively."

"The colors of alloys follow a similar pattern, but are difficult to predict a priori. For example, the addition of 25 percent silver to pure gold produces a green alloy while a similar amount of copper produces a red one."

1,640 posted on 02/16/2006 12:22:25 PM PST by RadioAstronomer (Senior member of Darwin Central)
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To: Californiajones; RadioAstronomer
Well it was only in the last few decades that we found out that if you purify gold to its most pure state -- the yellow in gold is actually an impurity -- white gold is actually purer than yellow gold -- purified gold is transparent.

That's codswallop. Metals, no matter how pure, are not transparent below their plasma frequency which is generally in the ultraviolet region of the spectrum.
This is a post I made some time ago on the same topic so I'm going to quote it here:

Actually it's due to interband transitions. In copper for instance, electrons from the filled 3d bands can transition to unoccupied states in the 4s band above the Fermi level. Thus, above a threshold of ca. 2eV, the reflectivity decreases drastically. Gold has a slightly higher interband absorption edge which is the reason why it has a yellowish color as opposed to copper with its reddish tinge. Silver on the other hand has no color (i.e. reflectivity is pretty high and constant over the whole visible spectrum) because it's threshold is at about 4eV which is in the ultraviolet region of the spectrum.

1,645 posted on 02/16/2006 1:25:44 PM PST by BMCDA (If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it,we would be so simple that we couldn't)
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To: Californiajones
Actually, our understanding of physics is already in the Bible. If Renaissance thinkers had bothered to read Isaiah, they would have noticed that God said that He holds up the "sphere of the earth" -- completely debunking that flat earth theory. It is said that Columbus took out his ships upon that scripture alone. (etc. etc. etc.)

The Bible may hint at a tiny amount of science but it certainly is NOT a source if scientific information. You can go backwards and retrofit modern knowledge to bible passages (I assume you are doing so in the original languages it was written in and not in the translations).

As written, the Bible says "streets of gold". Most would assume "streets of gold." Why would God obfuscate clear science?

Strawman arguments, just for the record, are not lies. They are obfuscations or bad analogies at worst. Lying would be stating what I know not to be true as true.

Obfuscation ON PURPOSE isn't lying? A half-truth is a lie. Logical fallacies, when knowingly employed for the purpose of falsification ARE LIES. You don't get to redefine lying then say "given my new definition of lying, I am not lying." This is begging the question, big time (another fallacy but that is you CRIDers standard stock in trade).

Haven't done that...

Yes you have. When you are busted on a particular logical fallacy and you use it again, then you are lying.

I just think the spirit behind EvoThink is not spiritually benign. But that is a theological discussion that weighs the bios and words and deeds and beliefs of EvoThink's proponents -- following how John tells us to "Test all the spirits, for not everything is of God"" and not for this thread.

You can "think" all you want. Put up proof. Make a direct casual correlation between Evolution Theory and Spiritual Malignancy.

As I said before, we all know what kind of people deal in "feelings" instead of facts. The words and deeds of proponents of Evolutionists is no more at issue than the words and deeds of bakers, doormen, waitresses, race car drivers, CEOs or anyone else.

I have shown you to have much in common with the streets of Heaven: Transparent.

1,654 posted on 02/16/2006 4:29:42 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: Californiajones

Scanning back through this, I see your assertions about the Bible being some sort of scientific text have been crushed. I mean crushed. Then the parts were run through a crusher. Then the crushed parts were crushed. Then the remaining powder was scattered to the 4 winds.

You should say "thank you" to all these people who have provided you with facts that you can't pretend to ignore.

And you also learned not to lead with Biblical Urban Legends.


1,655 posted on 02/16/2006 4:37:09 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: Californiajones; PatrickHenry
Actually, our understanding of physics is already in the Bible. If Renaissance thinkers had bothered to read Isaiah, they would have noticed that God said that He holds up the "sphere of the earth" -- completely debunking that flat earth theory. It is said that Columbus took out his ships upon that scripture alone.

Yep. Those heathen renaissance thinkers should have just gotten into their time machine and traveled to 1961 and got a copy of the 'New American Standard Bible' or to 1993 for a copy of 'The Message Bible' (the only versions that have a differing translation of Isa 40:22: 'vault' and 'ball').
The dummies!

< snip gold nonsense> So I'd say that the Bible is pretty much ahead of the ball on physics and science.

No it's not and neither are you.

Lying would be stating what I know not to be true as true.

;->

PH -- 'purified gold is transparent' has got to be a your-brain-on-creation winner.

1,710 posted on 02/16/2006 9:56:05 PM PST by dread78645 (Intelligent Design. It causes people to misspeak)
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