Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[mlc9852]

As an atheist I wouldn't expect any other answers from you, which we have heard over and over and over....

Since you are an atheist, it is understandable that you don't want anything religious taught anywhere. As a Christian, I have the same rights as you and can send my children to where they will learn the truth.

[Grig]

So if a kid asks what alternative theories are there to evolution, the teacher isn't allowed to say?

Also, where does the judge get off saying the ID people lied about their motives? Where is the evidence for that. It would seem to me that this is a clear sign of heavy bias from the judge and grounds for an appeal.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

The populations of humans who were stomped on by Western Imperialism probably wouldn't share your rosy view of Western moral superiority.

I'm unaware of any genocide by the West. Countries who've adopted elements of Western culture, like India and Japan, seem to be doing OK.

Places where they haven't, like Africa, Asia and the Middle East, aren't doing as well.

The folks who got treated the worst were probably the native North Americans. The Spaniards didn't do very well developing their territories either.

It depends on who you're comparing the West to. China, Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia simply killed people they didn't like. You can pick atrocities in Africa all day long.

The Muslims did much worse than what happened in the Americas. We're not cutting off the hands and feet of the native Americans and torturing them randomly.

What other culture has spent it's money and the lives of it's citizens to bring freedom to strangers?

[Protagoras]

You misread things or don't comprehend them, and I am insulting for pointing that out? That's rich.

But it does give you an escape hatch to cry about insults. So that works well in your situation.

[dmz]

Bringing cross burning into this discussion is just absolutely disingenuous.

The ban has nothing to do with the symbol's connection with religion, it is based on the fact that it is a means of intimidating someone.

[Antonello]

I have a 30-or-so year old book with the overly-ambitious title of "Teach yourself genetics". In this book there is a section on evolution and they do use the term micro and macro evolution, so I doubt it is really a creation science construct. Interestingly the book also uses the term mega-evolution to refer to evolution above the macro-evolution scale, although this term doesn't seem to be used any more.

I stand corrected. The terms were not coined by modern creationists, but rather by a Russian orthogeneticist by the name of Iurii Filipchenko in 1927. It does raise the question of credibility regarding creationists today using terms that belonged to a long discredited theory of new species being the product of spontaneous generation though, and at any rate they are not embraced by modern evolutionists.

[PatrickHenry]

Thanks for posting that. I've had questions about the award of attorney fees.

[highball]

I'm asking you which religion ID by definition is attempting to establish? Is it a particularly Jewish, Christian, or Muslim idea? Which religion does organized matter espouse?

ID was created as a stealth attempt to get one version of Christianity into science classes. It is warmed-over "Creation Science". That has been well-documented, in this case and elsewhere.

[MineralMan]

"Is not God in control? Was God powerless to prevent the damage caused by Katrina? Is God impotent in the face of Mother Nature? Is Mother Nature capable of thwarting God's will? If so, then Mother Nature is God."

You have it. I think you have it!

[unlearner]

"You postulate an absurdity to prove your point? Your ability to present your case is on a par with the people who presented the case for creationism, oops sorry I meant ID, in court."

Well I certainly can present a case for ID. The hyperbole illustrates the fact that the judge made a decision based on anti religious bias rather than scientific merit.

ID contains the only current scientific hypothesis for the origin of life.

[Coyoteman]

No evidence exists for it, never has, and in my view, it never will.

Evidence:

Fossil: KNM-ER 3733 Site: Koobi Fora (Upper KBS tuff, area 104), Lake Turkana, Kenya (4, 1)

Discovered By: B. Ngeneo, 1975 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.75 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal, paleomagnetic & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Female (species presumed to be sexually dimorphic) (1, 8)

Cranial Capacity: 850 cc (1, 3, 4)

Information: Tools found in same layer (8, 9). Found with KNM-ER 406- A. boisei (effectively eliminating single species hypothesis) (1)

Interpretation: Adult (based on cranial sutures, molar eruption and dental wear) (1)

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=33

[Fester Chugabrew]

ID was created as a stealth attempt to get one version of Christianity into science classes.

LOL! Which particular version of Christianity does organized matter espouse?

[Protagoras]

scientific theory n : a theory that explains scientific observations; "scientific theories must be falsifiable"

Now what son?

[highball]

Thanks for posting that. I've had questions about the award of attorney fees.

I'd like to see the good people of Dover sue the deposed school board members personally for these costs. They didn't want this fight, they booted the liars out of office when they had a chance, why should they have to pay the court costs of these bums?

The people responsible for the mess should shoulder the costs involved.

[js1138]

"The complexity and interdependence of life, even in its simplest forms, indicates formation from nonliving things from nonliving matter cannot occur apart from intelligent intervention."

An honest scientist would pose this as a null hypothesis and begin attempting to falsify it. Which is what molecular biologists are doing when they study the various abiogenesis hypotheses that don't exist.

There are many problems in science that cannot be solved in an afternoon. How many years passed between Copernicus and Newton, or between Newton and Einstein? How long did it take to build a coherent table of chemical elements? Do we have one now?

[Anti-MSM]

Which doesn't help prove God, because the next question is how did God come into existence.

That I agree with....to believe in God takes faith. However, the evolution theorists and big bang theorists expect us to accept what they say as fact when it is unproven. I guess they want us to believe what they say based on faith.

[Protagoras]

A belief in nothing is past sad.

[rootkidslim]

I am...
pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America... and a USMC combat veteran of Vietnam , so I actually fought for those things, unlike some. I am not pro-God, I think the idea is silly, but I respect the right of everyone to believe in whatever they wish. However, when they try to impose their silly ideas into science education, they deserve ridicule.
I think Western Civilization is the greatest development in world history, but we have things in our history that we should be ashamed of. The reason our civilization is so wonderful is that we have institutionalized political dialogue that leads us to correct our moral failings.

[narby]

Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America.

Well, I'm pro-all-those. JimRob left out pro-genuine-science, but since he's hosted all these crevo threads I've got to think he is.

We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc.

Well, that's good too. He doesn't oppose evolution. And since evolution isn't athiesm or junk-science, or any of those other things, no problem.

[highball]

LOL! Which particular version of Christianity does organized matter espouse?

You'll have to ask them - it's their policial agenda, not mine.

They thought it espoused Christianity. I think it's silly, but that's what they were trying to do. If you disagree, take it up with them.