Intelligent Design case decided - Dover, Pennsylvania, School Board loses [Fox News Alert]

Fox News | 12/20/05

[snarks_when_bored]

Fox News alert a few minutes ago says the Dover School Board lost their bid to have Intelligent Design introduced into high school biology classes. The federal judge ruled that their case was based on the premise that Darwin's Theory of Evolution was incompatible with religion, and that this premise is false.

[Oztrich Boy]

Frankly, I don't see how the notion of intelligent design hurts anyone -

Typical argument from a libertarian who wants to "do their own thing" and to h-ck with society.

[caffe]

would you share what dating method was used to date the skulls you posted?

[caffe]

Perhaps you should make your case of how macro evolution does not violate the laws of thermodynamics? I also don't know any creationists who deny micro-evolution so I don't understand your over generalized comment about mutation. Perhaps an example?

[Coyoteman]

would you share what dating method was used to date the skulls you posted?

My previous post #1666 outlined the general methods. You would have to check the web for individual methods used on specific fossils.

From #1666

Dating is done in several different ways. One is radiometric dating (of which there are several different kinds). Another deals with fauna and flora in associated strata. Still another deals with distinctive volcanic deposits. Using multiple methods helps to get reliable dates. But the dates are always cross-checked. If a fossil does not seem to fit, some bright person in some other facility will probably try to correct the date, and get a major research paper out of it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Students will be made aware of gaps/problems in Darwin’s theory and of other theories of evolution including, but not limited to, intelligent design."

How is that not mandating the teaching of intelligent design?

[Luis Gonzalez]

"Sharp as ever Luis."

Imagine what I could accomplish if I simply did not refuse to assimilate like us Hispanics immigrants do.

:-)

[caffe]

I'm afraid this post reveals your ability to stereotype christians but tells me nothing about your answer to my question. I think the discussion was about macro-evolutionary lies or fakes and not TV evangelists.

[js1138]

What lies and fakes are you interested in?

[jwalsh07]

When it's not taught. For the sake of argument I'll concede that ID is creationism, though I don't believe it for a minute being a creationist mysself.

A school compelling the teaching of creationism would run afoul of the establishment clause. A school not compelling it doesn't. Dover had no intelligent design curriculum, just a statement making students aware of it. No compulsion, no problem. Unless one thinks that non inflamatory speech and books should be censored in public schools.

[caffe]

Your the one who presented this as some kind of fact - don't you think you should know what dating method or methods were used?

[Dimensio]

Now that you're back for the day perhaps you can explain how the theory of evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics.

[caffe]

The lies of macro-evolutionists - some have even appeared in "science" textbooks .

[Dimensio]

The lies of macro-evolutionists - some have even appeared in "science" textbooks .

I don't want to sound presumptious, but I believe that js1138 wanted specific examples.

[ThinkDifferent]

Perhaps you should make your case of how macro evolution does not violate the laws of thermodynamics?

Good grief, this nugget of creationist ignorance still isn't dead yet? Go outside on a clear day and look up.

[caffe]

I'm actually going to be busy off and on tonight. But I believe I asked that you or others explain how they DON"T.
Perhaps it's time to give me your best shot and take a stand.

Since your obviously aware of the issue, i'd like to hear what you have to say.....please

[Dimensio]

I'm actually going to be busy off and on tonight.

Cop-out noted.

But I believe I asked that you or others explain how they DON"T.

I certainly didn't see such a claim addressed to me. Moreover, you're the one claiming that the theory violates the laws of thermodynamics. You're the one with the burden of proof to show the discrepency. If evolution contradicts thermodynamics, then demonstrate as much. Your attempt to pass the buck onto me to "prove you wrong" is simply dishonest of you.

Since your obviously aware of the issue, i'd like to hear what you have to say.....please

Fine. The argument from "second law of thermodynamics" always relies on the incorrect assumption that the law states that "entropy always increases", when really it says (well, this is a simplification, but it's a more accurate simplification) "net entropy always increases in a closed system" and, since the earth is not a closed system, it is possible for entropy to decrease without violating the second law of thermodynamics.

Now, if you have a coherent argument to make regarding the 2LoT forbidding evolution that you believe is not subject to my above comments, then please present it. Otherwise I will only be able to conclude that you are simply dishonestly copping out of the issue because you're too much of a coward to admit that you might be mistaken.

[Dimensio]

Good grief, this nugget of creationist ignorance still isn't dead yet?

Maybe it isn't ignorance. Maybe it's dishonesty.

[Coyoteman]

Your the one who presented this as some kind of fact - don't you think you should know what dating method or methods were used?

I'm not going to spend hours finding each date and its method. I have already provided you, twice, with the general methods used, which apparently is not enough. So I will tell you how to research this information yourself, and provide an example.

Specimen F. in the chart I posted depicts Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, estimated at 1.8 My (million years old). (This was a hot new find when I was taking my first evolution class in grad school.)

Go to google and type in "KNM-ER 1470" (which stands for Kenya National Museum, East Rudolph, and the fossil number). This will bring up a lot of pages. Select some that represent universities or other institutes and you will get a good discussion of the details. The creationist pages often contain inaccurate or distorted data, so you should not rely on just those sources.

For example http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/homorudolfensis.htm has a nice article on the specimen and current thoughts on it. It also has information on the dating methods used, and how the understanding of its true age has progressed with additional research.

Hope this helps.

[Now we'll find out if you are really interested in these fossils or are just looking for a "wedge" to try to discredit them and all those who study them. I'll await your answer.]

[longshadow]

Festival of Celebration, Day 2, placemarker

[conservative blonde]

Actually, my friend, you are the one believing the lie. Do you have one example of an evolving species? Do you have one missing link? Can you show any species that has come from another?