Kent Hovind, a former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist, said that evolution is the "dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth" at a program in the Union on Dec. 6.
Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry
A former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist told an audience at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee last Tuesday that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth.”
Kent Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism, presented “Creation or Evolution … Which Has More Merit?” to a standing-room only audience in the Union Ballroom on Dec. 6. The event was sponsored by the Apologetics Association, the organization that brought Baptist minister Tim Wilkins to UWM to speak about homosexuality in October.
Members of the Apologetics Association (AA) contacted biology, chemistry and geology professors at UWM and throughout the UW System, inviting them to debate Hovind for an honorarium of $200 to be provided to the individual or group of individuals who agreed.
Before the event began, the “No-Debater List,” which was comprised of slides listing the names of UWM science professors who declined the invitation, was projected behind the stage.
Dustin Wales, AA president, said it was his “biggest disappointment” that no professor agreed to debate Hovind.
“No professor wanted to defend his side,” he said. “I mean, we had seats reserved for their people … ’cause I know one objection could have been ‘Oh, it’s just a bunch of Christians.’ So we had seats reserved for them to bring people to make sure that it’s somewhat more equal, not just all against one. And still nobody would do it.”
Biology professor Andrew Petto said: “It is a pernicious lie that the Apologetics (Association) is spreading that no one responded to the challenge. Many of us (professors) did respond to the challenge; what we responded was, ‘No, thank you.’ ”
Petto, who has attended three of Hovind’s “performances,” said that because Hovind presents “misinterpretations, half truths and outright lies,” professors at UWM decided not to accept his invitation to a debate.
“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,” he said. “Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse. This is why the faculty here has universally decided not to engage Hovind. The result would be to give the appearance of a controversy where none exists.”
He added, “The faculty on campus is under no obligation to waste its time supporting Hovind’s little charade.”
Hovind, however, is used to being turned down. Near the end of his speech, he said, “Over 3,000 professors have refused to debate me. Why? Because I’m not afraid of them.”
Hovind began his multimedia presentation by asserting that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous” theory used in the scientific community, but that he is not opposed to science.
“Our ministry is not against science, but against using lies to prove things,” he said. He followed this statement by citing biblical references to lies, which were projected onto screens behind him.
Hovind said: “I am not trying to get evolution out of schools or to get creation in. We are trying to get lies out of textbooks.” He added that if removing “lies” from textbooks leaves no evidence for evolutionists’ theory, then they should “get a new theory.”
He cited numerous state statutes that require that textbooks be accurate and up-to-date, but said these laws are clearly not enforced because the textbooks are filled with lies and are being taught to students.
Petto said it is inevitable that textbooks will contain some errors.
“Sometimes, this is an oversight. Sometimes it is the result of the editorial and revision process. Sometimes it is the result of trying to portray a rich and complex idea in a very few words,” he said.
The first “lie” Hovind presented concerned the formation of the Grand Canyon. He said that two people can look at the canyon. The person who believes in evolution would say, “Wow, look what the Colorado River did for millions and millions of years.” The “Bible-believing Christian” would say, “Wow, look what the flood did in about 30 minutes.”
To elaborate, Hovind discussed the geologic column — the chronologic arrangement of rock from oldest to youngest in which boundaries between different eras are marked by a change in the fossil record. He explained that it does not take millions of years to form layers of sedimentary rock.
“You can get a jar of mud out of your yard, put some water in it, shake it up, set it down, and it will settle out into layers for you,” he said. Hovind used this concept of hydrologic sorting to argue that the biblical flood is what was responsible for the formation of the Grand Canyon’s layers of sedimentary rock.
Hovind also criticized the concept of “micro-evolution,” or evolution on a small, species-level scale. He said that micro-evolution is, in fact, scientific, observable and testable. But, he said, it is also scriptural, as the Bible says, “They bring forth after his kind.”
Therefore, according to the Bible and micro-evolution, dogs produce a variety of dogs and they all have a common ancestor — a dog.
Hovind said, however, Charles Darwin made a “giant leap of faith and logic” from observing micro-evolution into believing in macro-evolution, or evolution above the species level. Hovind said that according to macro-evolution, birds and bananas are related if one goes back far enough in time, and “the ancestor ultimately was a rock.”
He concluded his speech by encouraging students to personally remove the lies from their textbooks and parents to lobby their school board for accurate textbooks.
“Tear that page out of your book,” he said. “Would you leave that in there just to lie to the kids?”
Petto said Hovind believes the information in textbooks to be “lies” because his determination is grounded in faith, not science.
“Make no mistake, this is not a determination made on the scientific evidence, but one in which he has decided on the basis of faith alone that the Bible is correct, and if the Bible is correct, then science must be wrong,” he said.
Petto said Hovind misinterprets scientific information and then argues against his misinterpretation.
“That is, of course, known as the ‘straw man’ argument — great debating strategy, but nothing to do with what scientists actually say or do,” he said. “The bottom line here is that the science is irrelevant to his conclusions.”
Another criticism of Hovind’s presentation is his citation of pre-college textbooks. Following the event, an audience member said, “I don’t think using examples of grade school and high school biology can stand up to evolution.”
Petto called this an “interesting and effective rhetorical strategy” and explained that Hovind is not arguing against science, but the “textbook version” of science.
“The texts are not presenting the research results of the scientific community per se, but digesting and paraphrasing it in a way to make it more effective in learning science,” he said. “So, what (Hovind) is complaining about is not what science says, but what the textbooks say that science says.”
Petto said this abbreviated version of scientific research is due, in part, to the editorial and production processes, which impose specific limits on what is included.
He added that grade school and high school textbooks tend to contain very general information about evolution and pressure from anti-evolutionists has weakened evolutionary discussion in textbooks.
“Lower-level texts … tend to be more general in their discussions of evolution and speak more vaguely of ‘change over time’ and adaptation and so on,” he said. “Due to pressure by anti-evolutionists, textbook publishers tend to shy away from being ‘too evolutionary’ in their texts … The more pressure there is on schools and publishers, the weaker the evolution gets, and the weaker it gets, the more likely that it will not do a good job of representing the current consensus among biologists.”
Hovind has a “standing offer” of $250,000 for “anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution.” According to Hovind’s Web site, the offer “demonstrates that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religious belief.”
The Web site, www.drdino.com, says, “Persons wishing to collect the $250,000 may submit their evidence in writing or schedule time for a public presentation. A committee of trained scientists will provide peer review of the evidence offered and, to the best of their ability, will be fair and honest in their evaluation and judgment as to the validity of the evidence presented.”
Wales said the AA’s goal in bringing Hovind to UWM was “to crack the issue on campus” and bring attention to the fallibility of evolution.
“The ultimate goal was to say that, ‘Gosh, evolution isn’t as concrete as you say it is, and why do you get to teach everyone this non-concrete thing and then not defend it when someone comes and says your wrong?’ ” he said. “It’s just absurd.”
We'll see.
I don't think he's worth dealing with. He's clearly absolutely paranoid and delusional.
Just like your Nazi friends.
You seem to have difficulty parsing the English language.
I posted no lies.
b'shem Y'shua
D>You referenced a passage allegedly from Josepheus that is widely regarded
by educated scholars (and this includes Christian scholars) as a fake
that was inserted centuries after Josepheus died. Then you tried to justify presenting false passages as fact.
You must use a different definition of "lie" than most people.
Then again, lots of creationists seem to have that problem.
2,047 posted on 12/21/2005 8:21:04 PM MST by Dimensio
You seem to use sweeping generalization about anyone with whom you disagree
First, there seems to be some anti Messianic missionaries who cast doubt on Josephus.
It does not seem to be widely regarded by educated scholars as a fake.
There are many lost souls who will attempt to debunk all reference to Y'shua.
You seem to be in that number of lost souls desperately trying to not accept Y'shua as L-rd.
1 Peter 3:9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but withYou are in my prayers.
blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.1 Peter 3:10 For, “Whoever would love life and see good days must keep
his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech.1 Peter 3:11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are
attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.” [Psalm 34:12-16]1 Peter 3:13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good?
1 Peter 3:14 But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are
blessed. “Do not fear what they fear; [Or not fear their
threats] do not be frightened.” [Isaiah 8:12]
b'shem Y'shua
In other words, a Dimi-Centric and Dimi-Ascendtant POV of the world.
Wolf
Thank you for the support.
Blessings on you
b'shem Y'shua
bump that
I'm not dealing with what I don't know was there. I'm also not dealing with what I don't know was not there. That's the difference between us. I can postulate possibilities without
framing them as the truth of the matter. Mere possibility doesn't make it so. In absence of the facts and conditions, guessing is not the only option. Saying "I don't know" is an option and one I prefer to pontificating on what you and I both are ignorant of. It isn't my version vs. yours. It's my approach vs. yours that is the issue here. And many of you can't simply shut up when you don't know.
No, the point is that neither of us know the conditions in which it all happened. Neither of us can therefore speak to the variability. Just as neither of us can say that the states have been constant. You can argue hypotheticals all you wish. That doesn't deal with a situation that you don't know the condition of. And that is the problem to start out with. To defend your assumptives, you start off on another assumptive and heap upon it one assumption after another about the conditions in which you'll run a hypothetical test case in regard to the point. Assumption is the error to begin with.. So to solve the problem, you compound it!!
Nuvox Communications.......is that where you work, Stultis (smiling)
Viewing the source of post 2043 yields some string incorporating "Terry Schiavo"....take a look everybody; what's Terry Schiavo got to do with a man in a rubber room...her supporters perhaps?
You are also not dealing with the difficulties of imagining your "possibilities" being the truth of the matter.
Mere possibility doesn't make it so.
Impossibility does tend to make it not so, however. The problems I raised for your canopy as a mitigator of hyperactive decay rates would have to be addressed before anyone would it seriously.
Saying "I don't know" is an option and one I prefer to pontificating on what you and I both are ignorant of.
Fine. You don't have a clue. You just wanted to wave some old YEC nonsense around to see if it would fool anybody.
And many of you can't simply shut up when you don't know.
We have established you are utterly ignorant here or you might have anticipated an objection or two. So when do you shut up?
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