Kent Hovind, a former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist, said that evolution is the "dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth" at a program in the Union on Dec. 6.
Posted on 12/17/2005 3:58:48 AM PST by PatrickHenry
A former high school science teacher turned creation science evangelist told an audience at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee last Tuesday that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous theory on planet Earth.”
Kent Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism, presented “Creation or Evolution … Which Has More Merit?” to a standing-room only audience in the Union Ballroom on Dec. 6. The event was sponsored by the Apologetics Association, the organization that brought Baptist minister Tim Wilkins to UWM to speak about homosexuality in October.
Members of the Apologetics Association (AA) contacted biology, chemistry and geology professors at UWM and throughout the UW System, inviting them to debate Hovind for an honorarium of $200 to be provided to the individual or group of individuals who agreed.
Before the event began, the “No-Debater List,” which was comprised of slides listing the names of UWM science professors who declined the invitation, was projected behind the stage.
Dustin Wales, AA president, said it was his “biggest disappointment” that no professor agreed to debate Hovind.
“No professor wanted to defend his side,” he said. “I mean, we had seats reserved for their people … ’cause I know one objection could have been ‘Oh, it’s just a bunch of Christians.’ So we had seats reserved for them to bring people to make sure that it’s somewhat more equal, not just all against one. And still nobody would do it.”
Biology professor Andrew Petto said: “It is a pernicious lie that the Apologetics (Association) is spreading that no one responded to the challenge. Many of us (professors) did respond to the challenge; what we responded was, ‘No, thank you.’ ”
Petto, who has attended three of Hovind’s “performances,” said that because Hovind presents “misinterpretations, half truths and outright lies,” professors at UWM decided not to accept his invitation to a debate.
“In a nutshell, debates like this do not settle issues of scientific understanding,” he said. “Hovind and his arguments are not even in the same galaxy as legitimate scientific discourse. This is why the faculty here has universally decided not to engage Hovind. The result would be to give the appearance of a controversy where none exists.”
He added, “The faculty on campus is under no obligation to waste its time supporting Hovind’s little charade.”
Hovind, however, is used to being turned down. Near the end of his speech, he said, “Over 3,000 professors have refused to debate me. Why? Because I’m not afraid of them.”
Hovind began his multimedia presentation by asserting that evolution is the “dumbest and most dangerous” theory used in the scientific community, but that he is not opposed to science.
“Our ministry is not against science, but against using lies to prove things,” he said. He followed this statement by citing biblical references to lies, which were projected onto screens behind him.
Hovind said: “I am not trying to get evolution out of schools or to get creation in. We are trying to get lies out of textbooks.” He added that if removing “lies” from textbooks leaves no evidence for evolutionists’ theory, then they should “get a new theory.”
He cited numerous state statutes that require that textbooks be accurate and up-to-date, but said these laws are clearly not enforced because the textbooks are filled with lies and are being taught to students.
Petto said it is inevitable that textbooks will contain some errors.
“Sometimes, this is an oversight. Sometimes it is the result of the editorial and revision process. Sometimes it is the result of trying to portray a rich and complex idea in a very few words,” he said.
The first “lie” Hovind presented concerned the formation of the Grand Canyon. He said that two people can look at the canyon. The person who believes in evolution would say, “Wow, look what the Colorado River did for millions and millions of years.” The “Bible-believing Christian” would say, “Wow, look what the flood did in about 30 minutes.”
To elaborate, Hovind discussed the geologic column — the chronologic arrangement of rock from oldest to youngest in which boundaries between different eras are marked by a change in the fossil record. He explained that it does not take millions of years to form layers of sedimentary rock.
“You can get a jar of mud out of your yard, put some water in it, shake it up, set it down, and it will settle out into layers for you,” he said. Hovind used this concept of hydrologic sorting to argue that the biblical flood is what was responsible for the formation of the Grand Canyon’s layers of sedimentary rock.
Hovind also criticized the concept of “micro-evolution,” or evolution on a small, species-level scale. He said that micro-evolution is, in fact, scientific, observable and testable. But, he said, it is also scriptural, as the Bible says, “They bring forth after his kind.”
Therefore, according to the Bible and micro-evolution, dogs produce a variety of dogs and they all have a common ancestor — a dog.
Hovind said, however, Charles Darwin made a “giant leap of faith and logic” from observing micro-evolution into believing in macro-evolution, or evolution above the species level. Hovind said that according to macro-evolution, birds and bananas are related if one goes back far enough in time, and “the ancestor ultimately was a rock.”
He concluded his speech by encouraging students to personally remove the lies from their textbooks and parents to lobby their school board for accurate textbooks.
“Tear that page out of your book,” he said. “Would you leave that in there just to lie to the kids?”
Petto said Hovind believes the information in textbooks to be “lies” because his determination is grounded in faith, not science.
“Make no mistake, this is not a determination made on the scientific evidence, but one in which he has decided on the basis of faith alone that the Bible is correct, and if the Bible is correct, then science must be wrong,” he said.
Petto said Hovind misinterprets scientific information and then argues against his misinterpretation.
“That is, of course, known as the ‘straw man’ argument — great debating strategy, but nothing to do with what scientists actually say or do,” he said. “The bottom line here is that the science is irrelevant to his conclusions.”
Another criticism of Hovind’s presentation is his citation of pre-college textbooks. Following the event, an audience member said, “I don’t think using examples of grade school and high school biology can stand up to evolution.”
Petto called this an “interesting and effective rhetorical strategy” and explained that Hovind is not arguing against science, but the “textbook version” of science.
“The texts are not presenting the research results of the scientific community per se, but digesting and paraphrasing it in a way to make it more effective in learning science,” he said. “So, what (Hovind) is complaining about is not what science says, but what the textbooks say that science says.”
Petto said this abbreviated version of scientific research is due, in part, to the editorial and production processes, which impose specific limits on what is included.
He added that grade school and high school textbooks tend to contain very general information about evolution and pressure from anti-evolutionists has weakened evolutionary discussion in textbooks.
“Lower-level texts … tend to be more general in their discussions of evolution and speak more vaguely of ‘change over time’ and adaptation and so on,” he said. “Due to pressure by anti-evolutionists, textbook publishers tend to shy away from being ‘too evolutionary’ in their texts … The more pressure there is on schools and publishers, the weaker the evolution gets, and the weaker it gets, the more likely that it will not do a good job of representing the current consensus among biologists.”
Hovind has a “standing offer” of $250,000 for “anyone who can give any empirical evidence (scientific proof) for evolution.” According to Hovind’s Web site, the offer “demonstrates that the hypothesis of evolution is nothing more than a religious belief.”
The Web site, www.drdino.com, says, “Persons wishing to collect the $250,000 may submit their evidence in writing or schedule time for a public presentation. A committee of trained scientists will provide peer review of the evidence offered and, to the best of their ability, will be fair and honest in their evaluation and judgment as to the validity of the evidence presented.”
Wales said the AA’s goal in bringing Hovind to UWM was “to crack the issue on campus” and bring attention to the fallibility of evolution.
“The ultimate goal was to say that, ‘Gosh, evolution isn’t as concrete as you say it is, and why do you get to teach everyone this non-concrete thing and then not defend it when someone comes and says your wrong?’ ” he said. “It’s just absurd.”
II>They why post them?
1,952 posted on 12/20/2005 6:03:34 PM MST by Invincibly Ignorant
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord.
Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone
who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.
But do this with gentleness and respect,1 Peter 3:16 keeping a clear conscience,
so that those who speak maliciously
against your good behaviour in Christ
may be ashamed of their slander.1 Peter 3:17 It is better, if it is God’s will,
to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.
b'shem Y'shua
Well, except of course for the non-Christians and Mexicans who will be annihilated or driven from the country when the True Christians emerge from their compounds, led by General He Rides A White Horse, and initiate the shooting phase of the religio-culture war.
Merry Christmas to everyone else!
Stratified layers up to 400 feet thick formed as a result of landslides, pyroclastic flow, mudflows, etc., during the Mt. St. Helens eruption. Fine laminae from only a millimeter thick to more than a meter high formed in just a few seconds each. A deposit more than 25 feet in thickness, and containing upwards of 100 thin layers accumulated in just one day on June 12, 1980. Naturalists have long claimed that stratified layer such as those found in the geological column have accumulated over vast periods of time, and these laminates represent long season variations or annual changes. However, the Mt. St. Helens deposits have demonstrated that catastrophic processes are able to create these geological formations in a short period of time. 
The stratification visible in the Grand Canyon is comprised of thousands of layers of different rock, some sedimentary, some igneous, some metamorphic. What this picture shows is two layers of unconsolidated ash.
The strata have many causes, most of which do not equate to regular seasonal deposition.
" However, the Mt. St. Helens deposits have demonstrated that catastrophic processes are able to create these geological formations in a short period of time.
There is a major difference between the time required for erosion of unconsolidated ash such as you show and the much different material cut through in the creation of the Grand Canyon.
What an ash!
Ash Whole placemarker
Ok the veracity of Josephus is of little concern to those who are lost but always be prepared to give an answer whether it concerns those that are lost or not. lol. It's all making sense to me now. :-)
So you're saying that it's acceptable to post lies as justification for your hope?
Since the public schools can't even teach the kids to read, write, spell and compute, why are we surprised at the lack of accuracy in the textbooks? Our schools have become unwieldy, inefficient bureaucracies dedicated to bigger budgets and hiring more administrative dead weight than last year.
In the best schools individual teachers have no autonomy in their classrooms and get saddled with the latest time-wasting fads promoted by special interest groups. In the worst schools teachers can't pass a simple, 7th grade level test, and the halls must be patrolled by security guards.
I don't think I'll be a general, but I will hope that I have the privilege of serving under a virtuous, able leader when the scenario arrives.
As far as Mexicans are concerned, those here illegally should have driven out already (although that idea is probably revolting to some anarchist Libertarian such as yourself.)
I doubt we'll have a desire to annihilate non-Christians; just those like yourself who have decided to wage war upon us. Those who have forced a sickening agenda on the vast, decent majority of this country. Those like yourself who have terrorized this nation for the past 30 years with political correctness (again, read closet Nazism). You are no conservative, nor a patriot; your beliefs coincide with those of the Clintons, Nancy Pelosi, and the rest of the liberal establishment. So quit putting forth the proposition that you have anything in common with the great men who founded this country. You are a liar and a thief, and it will be a great day when somebody tears that ill-gotten mantle right off your back.
balrog666...indeed, it's no surprise where you are coming from. This is the type of people you are in league with. A poster who wears the sign of the anti-Christ with pride.....and you sound indignant when I suggest that such people have no place in American society.....go join the ACLU guys; you are truly kindred spirits.
Saying it doesn't make it so....I have described you and your ilk to a tee; quit lying Dimensio. This is merely one prong of a multi-faceted attempt to eliminate Christians from society. It is you and your evolutionist friends who have perpetrated some of the worst crimes upon humanity. Hitler, who took your theories to their logical end. Natural selection, the putting to death of the infirm, the racially impure; you would accuse me of being a lunatic when you have already implemented your lunacy once. With the predictable result; World War II, millions of people dead. All the result of one of the most Satanic, evil doctrines the word has ever seem.
Lunacy? Lunacy would be letting you and the rest of your murderous ilk implementing your policies again. Evolution indeed; you and your kind are an example of the worst humanity has to offer.
Look at the beaches of Normandy; you'll see a sea of crosses and stars of David, not some liberal flag flapping in the breeze. You are filthy, defiling all that is sacred.
Biologists--you mean left wing campus critters whom you and your friends call educators. Those who brook no competition, just like every other totalitarian in the world.
If you are willing to stop fabricating positions that I do not take regarding lies that I want to "eliminiate the very people who built this society" then I will be able to discuss with you.
You're a liar; your posts indicate that. There's nothing to discuss Dimensio, because I think the point of no return has been passed. You people are like Saddam Hussein; let's talk while I continue to play my shell game, tell more lies and count on inaction regarding your true intent.
You're not fooling anybody with your deception and mistruths; at this point it's a waiting game. We'll both know when the time has arrived.
Yeah. I should not be indignant when you reserve the right of (and palpably relish the prospect of) making war on, or forcibly expeling from the country, law abiding fellow citizens on a purely religious or ideological basis.
You're still a looney.
Why don't you go and find someone to rant at who's actually interested in your paranoid, nihilistic, retributionist fantasies? (Hopefully someone qualified to dispense powerful psychoactive prophylactics.)
I feel the same way. Listening to somebody who lives in a socialist cesspool run by the French and secular humanist weirdos. Go apply for your marriage license, you know, the other kind.....and have a Merry, I don't know, Harvey the Spaceman Day who comes on Christmas to stuff 6 year old children's stockings with condoms and The Communist Manifesto.
b-sharp?.....you need a tuning I think. You're sounding a bit flat.
See posts 2033 and 2034. There is nothing I've said about you that is a lie.
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