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There is no proof that we evolved from apes. Period
the Sunday Telegraph ^ | 9/11/05 | Vij Sodera

Posted on 12/15/2005 9:10:41 AM PST by flevit

Simon Schama appears to have little understanding of biology (Opinion, September 4). With an ostrich mindset that tries to ignore reality, pseudo-scientists continue in the vain hope that if they shout loud and long enough they can perpetuate the fairy story and bad science that is evolution.

You don't have to be a religious fundamentalist to question evolution theory - you just have to have an open and enquiring mind and not be afraid of challenging dogma. But you must be able to discern and dodge the effusion of evolutionary landmines that are bluster and non sequiturs.

No one denies the reality of variation and natural selection. For example, chihuahuas and Great Danes can be derived from a wolf by selective breeding. Therefore, a chihuahua is a wolf, in the same way that people of short stature and small brain capacity are fully human beings.

However, there is no evidence (fossil, anatomical, biochemical or genetic) that any creature did give rise, or could have given rise, to a different creature. In addition, by their absence in the fossil record for (supposed) millions of years along with the fact of their existence during the same time period, many animals such as the coelacanth demonstrate the principle that all creatures could have lived contemporaneously in the past.

No evidence supports the notion that birds evolved from dinosaurs, nor that whales evolved from terrestrial quadrupeds, nor that the human knee joint evolved from a fish pelvic fin. And the critically-positioned amino acids at the active sites within enzymes and structural proteins show that the origination of complex proteins by step-wise modifications of supposed ancestral peptides is impossible. In other words, birds have always been birds, whales have always been whales, apes did not evolve into humans, and humans have always been humans.

But you might protest that it has been proved that we evolved from apes. In fact, the answer is a categorical No. Australopithecines, for example, were simply extinct apes that in a few anatomical areas differed from living apes. If some of them walked bipedally to a greater degree than living apes, this does not constitute evidence that apes evolved into humans - it just means that some ancient apes were different from living apes.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: anotherevotalltale; clowntown; creationisthicks; creationuts; crevolist; drzaiusrules; evilutionuts; evolution; foolsaysthereisnogod; fruitcakes; goddooditamen; idiocy; ignoranceisstrength; ignoranceonparade; moron
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To: redrock
but you sound just like a Liberal

Lets not resort to nastiness here.

181 posted on 12/15/2005 12:10:20 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: add925

You wrote: "Yes...as "Nutsy" beliefs once held until proven incorrect. Sure, why not?"

Reply: Now there you go. Well, can you really 'prove' that the planets are not pushed around the sun by angels? At what point do you decide that the geocentric universe is not a valid theory?

The ID notions of 'irreducible complexity' and "specified complexity' have been shown to be unscientific, internally inconsistent, and not productive of research. Why would we want to keep teaching them?


182 posted on 12/15/2005 12:11:12 PM PST by thomaswest (Just Curious)
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To: flevit
There is no proof that we evolved from apes. Period

That is as far as I read. The only people putting forth the idea that we evolved from apes are those who try to discredit evolution.
183 posted on 12/15/2005 12:13:27 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: flevit
in other words trying to proclaim "I don't see it" by your time line is counter productive, any one excepting the global flood, would not except your timeline.

I appreciate the explanation.

I think you have identified the problem. One either sees the scientific evidence or accepts what the bible says in spite of the evidence.

184 posted on 12/15/2005 12:14:42 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Coyoteman

A few weeks ago I read an article in the newspaper about a new theory that a large asteroid hitting the ocean millions of years ago (or maybe it hit in the eastern shore of maryland, now that I think about it), anyway it caused a tsunami that supposedly topped the appalachian mountains.

I'm thinking that, if true, that should leave some sort of flood evidence.

I remember being down in Atlanta and seeing a cut-through which they had as an exhibit, which showed fossils of sea life. They happily explained how this proved evolution, and how this part of the world must have been under sea level and then it "thrust up" giving evidence of rapid sedimentation and aquatic fossils hundreds of feet above sea level. Couldn't have been a world-wide flood, nope, not a chance.....


185 posted on 12/15/2005 12:15:08 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: R. Scott

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/photogalleries/ape_ancestor/

I didn't realize that NG, is trying to discredit evolution


186 posted on 12/15/2005 12:15:53 PM PST by flevit
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To: ZULU
Evolution does NOT state we descended from Apes.

Really? According to at least one FR evolutionists, man did descend from apes. Check out his post.

Post #7

187 posted on 12/15/2005 12:16:11 PM PST by connectthedots
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To: Coyoteman
Do you really expect anyone to take this kind of nonsense seriously?

Alas, he probably does.

188 posted on 12/15/2005 12:16:18 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: Coyoteman
Ahh....but...the arguments that "Evolutionists" use are the same exact ones that Liberals use.

i.e...."If you don't agree with us...you're an idiot."

All anyone has to say is that "Evolution is NOT proven"....and the dogmatics come out of the wooodwork.

Evolutionists are NOT open to any other way but theirs...

redrock

189 posted on 12/15/2005 12:18:11 PM PST by redrock (Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. --Will Rogers)
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To: connectthedots; ZULU
Evolution does NOT state we descended from Apes.

Actually he's saying that we descended from the same organisms that apes did. This is always so confusing to the anti-science crowd.

190 posted on 12/15/2005 12:18:56 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: flevit

Daschle is very concerned


191 posted on 12/15/2005 12:19:37 PM PST by Cinnamon
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To: CharlesWayneCT
That wouldn't disprove evolution. You'd just say that men and dinosaurs must have lived together, and postulate a new common ancester farther back in time.

If the remains of every kind of animal and plant were found commingled with the remains of every other animal and plant, that would disprove evolution.

One of the strongest pieces of evidence in favor of evolution is that the remains of certain animals and plants are only found within certain time periods in the Earth's history.
192 posted on 12/15/2005 12:20:18 PM PST by BikerNYC (Modernman should not have been banned.)
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To: thomaswest
The ID notions of 'irreducible complexity' and "specified complexity' have been shown to be unscientific, internally inconsistent, and not productive of research. Why would we want to keep teaching them?

Life is far more than scientific measurement and analysis. How do you measure spiritual well-being? What you and libs appear to fail to recognize is the potential benefit of some spiritual teaching....Yes, in conjuction with cold scientific facts.

A balance is in order....why doom children to cold science exclusively?

193 posted on 12/15/2005 12:20:25 PM PST by add925 (The Left = Xenophobes in Denial)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
From my post #166:

How about this. An archaeologist (me) says, based on 35 years of work in the western US, there is no evidence in the western US of a large-scale flood such as is claimed to have occurred some 4200-4300 years ago.

You need to address this kind of evidence if you wish to support the flood story. This is not something I read or heard somewhere, this is something I have worked hard to learn. There is no counter to it on the creation pages, so most creationists on these theads simply ignore it when I bring it up. What do you say?

194 posted on 12/15/2005 12:21:20 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: flevit

Stupid title. NOBODY who knows anything about evolution has EVER asserted that humanity evolved from apes.
The general assertion is that apes and humans share a distant, but common evolutionary ancestor. Evidence for this is the fact than humans and chimps have about 96% of their DNA in common.


195 posted on 12/15/2005 12:24:08 PM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: flevit

Ultimately, it is a matter of faith. I believe that we may not have evolved from apes, but that humans and apes may have had common ancestors. Understanding the processes God used to introduce man and the other creatures into a dynamic environment does not make it less miraculous.


196 posted on 12/15/2005 12:25:22 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Coyoteman
One either sees the scientific evidence or accepts what the bible says in spite of the evidence.

I fall into a third category--I see all the scientific evidence, but interpret it slightly differently than you do.

197 posted on 12/15/2005 12:26:26 PM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

You wrote: "Couldn't have been a world-wide flood, nope, not a chance....."

Reply: The evidence against Noah's Flood includes not only the lack of geological evidence and much better explanations, but also from the domain of physics--condensing all that water vapor would release so much heat that the oceans would boil!

And is illogical from a theological and moral perspective. If God is so powerful as to create the Universe, surely He could have found a way to punish the bad people without having to kill innocent fetuses in pregnant women, without drowning innocent newborns and toddlers, without wiping out millions of innocent animals that had no stake in the argument (apparently in a fit of pique).


198 posted on 12/15/2005 12:27:01 PM PST by thomaswest (Just Curious)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/11/photogalleries/ape_ancestor/


199 posted on 12/15/2005 12:27:44 PM PST by flevit
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To: LearsKent
I gotta have a banana and think about that one...

I used to hate bananas until I went to the zoo and saw the chimps peeling them and found they really do taste better without the skin...honest.

200 posted on 12/15/2005 12:31:16 PM PST by harrowup (Born perfect and humble about it.)
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