Posted on 11/07/2005 12:05:04 PM PST by Mikey_1962
THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.
Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible were read correctly. His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US, who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself and had a creator".
This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the precise details of how creation and the development of the species came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science saw things so as to "understand things better".
His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the "intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that some higher being must have designed every detail.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...
A lot of cultures have flood stories. Not surprising, really, as many early cultures arose around rivers with seasonal floods.
Oh boy, and there are cycles of cycles of... madness. A future in which I can expect to be lots of other things on this messed up and often agonizing earth, over and over again? Hey, I thought they didn't have a hell. They don't have to; this would more than suffice.
"So death for you is a scary unknown? How does one arrive at Athiesm from this question? (Just curious)"
Ah. For atheists, it's not a scary question at all. It's a scary question for many, so religion is needed to calm the fears.
For atheists, it's clear that this life is the life you get. That makes it abundantly clear that one must make the most of that short lifetime. It also means that the actions you take in that lifetime have REAL significance.
Each of us, if we're fortunate enough not to suddenly drop deat, gets an opportunity to examine our lives as history. For me, knowing that my life has been well-spent, harmless to others, and interesting, will make my waning days quite pleasurable, aside from physical discomfort.
At age 60, I've already started reviewing my life. Where there are deficiencies, I'm trying to make up for them.
I will one day die. When I do, I will be a memory in a number of people's minds, some under the age of five today. I leave no lasting works of art, so those memories will pass with the holders of the memories.
It doesn't bother me. I'll be gone.
If they found Noah's Ark on the top of a mountain what would you think then? Do you think someone would have carried it up there? Just curious as to what you would think if they did find the ark.
Direct evidence would be good. If you find something, you still need to verify what it is. But, if there is an actual ark found on some mountain top then you at least have something to work with, radiocarbon or tree-ring date, etc.
My problem that I see is science being perverted in a misguided attempt to prove a flood where there is no evidence. In my excavations of the 4,000-5,000 time period in the western US I have seen no evidence of a global flood; rather, I see evidence of human habitation for the whole time period in many sites, with internal consistency in the data. People were living happily before, during, and after the dates generally given for the flood.
Given what I have seen, I get a bit put off by people who seek to affirm their belief by trashing what I do for a living, and do it by going to the CS websites. Truly, if it weren't for bad science, there'd be no science at all on those sites.
Demographics differe a few percentage points depending on who publishes the survey. This is my source.
Source: International Bulletin of Missionary Research, January 2003. David B. Barrett & Todd M. Johnson.
Christians (total): 2,076,629,000 (33.1%)
Evangelicals: 221,637,000
Pentecostal/Charismatics: 553,763,000
Anglicans: 82,895,000
Orthodox: 218,501,000
Protestants: 356,138,000
Roman Catholics: 1,097,144,000
As for your comment on authoritative teaching, does this mean you can make any teaching inoperative if you don't like it? Is this the way you appoach your religion?
"Oh boy, and there are cycles of cycles of... madness. A future in which I can expect to be lots of other things on this messed up and often agonizing earth, over and over again? Hey, I thought they didn't have a hell. They don't have to; this would more than suffice."
Fascinating, huh? But, you see, if you live according to the rules, you can bypass some of the cycles. That's the reward for good behavior. It's harder than Christianity, of course. But it seems to work out OK for a goodly number of folks.
Interestingly, it's arguable that Hinduism is the oldest currently practiced religion on the planet. Judaism is a close second, and it's not all that clear, since the written word doesn't survive that long on paper, papyrus, or sheets of plant matter.
If you can find a Hindu teacher willing to talk to you (it's not easy), it's a worthwhile discussion.
It isn't about taking it "literally" it's about taking it "seriously". And Rome doesn't take God's word seriously. That is why it is no problem to them to say 'well God didn't mean what he meant..' Rome didn't understand the import of Genesis to the rest of the body of scripture, just as they are largely ignorant of many other things in scripture which form the Christian foundation. Thus they continue to push the lie that there is no conflict between scripture and evolution.. No conflict.
As I've noted elsewhere, the obvious needs stating. When I have a schedule conflict, I have to change my schedule. No conflict, no change. How is it then where there is no conflict here that we're all supposed to CHANGE our view and understanding to fit evolution... Words mean things.
"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself and had a creator".
Just because Rome can't read for comprehension, doesn't mean Christians cannot. Rome didn't know the limits of "binding and loosing" from the Judaic sense and ended up using it as a one stop shop for propounding anything they wished to. One by one we can go down a laundry list of things Rome hasn't understood, got wrong, was duped by, etc. The audacity of Rome is astonishing.
God's word was written the way it is for a reason. If there is no conflict between it and Evolution, let evolution conform itself to scripture and stop calling God a liar as Rome itself has chosen to do. Christians don't take this as a "light" matter. And we'll not be joining Rome in order to let Rome save face. They stood alone in condemnation of Galileo, they can now stand alone in condemnation of God.
O.K. I think I was all mixed up. 33 years must have been "chosen" as something like the upper end of the bell curve in reproductive age. I think I was thinking you had to add the time till you reproduced plus the time until your offspring reproduced, so that a generation would be forty years if you had children at twenty, but that would be two generations.
So you're dead and that's it? You're gone? Wormfood?
...So if that's the case, why live a significant life? What does it matter?
"Yes, God gave 10 laws and that was unreasonable, but the universe can deal out karma and samsara with amazing dexterity and aptness. Talk about a croc!"
Ah, well...it's all pretty random. Nobody manages to follow all the rules, anyhow, so it's all nonsense. That's the beauty of Christianity. It's the most evolved religion, and makes the most sense for people.
You're a sinner, and you're going to keep being one. But that's OK, as long as you're sorry about it and believe that Jesus will still get you to paradise.
It's pretty much perfect for humans. That's why it succeeds.
Now, my computer day is over. I have a meal to prepare for myself and my wife. Tomorrow's another day, and sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof, as is so aptly stated in the New Testament.
"Be wary of anything man says when it's outside of what the Bible teaches. I don't care whether it's a priest, pastor, rabbi, preacher, teacher, or even the Pope. If it's NOT in the Bible, question it. God didn't make ANY mistakes, but mankind has been making mistakes since the beginning of creation. His Word settles it. There is NO other authority."
AMEN & AMEN NRA2BFree;
Read the Bible for yourselves!
"...So if that's the case, why live a significant life? What does it matter?
"
Why? Because I must answer to myself. That's why.
Honestly, I don't want to call you a liar so I will just say I feel you are terribly, desperately misinformed. Floods produce "a wide, relatively shallow bed, not a deep, sinuous river channel." Since you're so interested in websites, here's a new sort of website you seem to be unfamiliar with. One with scientific sources.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH581.html
The Grand Canyon does not in any way resemble any young geological structure. It does not date young. Its fossils do not date young. It is very old and to intimate it appears otherwise is dishonest.
But to answer your questions I place no limitations on God, I believe in the miracles of the Virgin Birth, the parting of the sea, the resurrection and of life everlasting. Amen.
I find it puzzling too. Why would anyone presume to constrain the mode of a miracle?
Ultimately there's only one being, so there's really no getting "out".
"Why? Because I must answer to myself. That's why."
So then, each man answers to himself. What you are saying is that right and wrong are relative to the man himself?
You're a sinner, and you're going to keep being one. But that's OK, as long as you're sorry about it and believe that Jesus will still get you to paradise.
You should go re-study predestination. I am a sinner, that is true, but I don't have to be. I never have to ever sin again, as the Holy Spirit can and will transform that aspect of my nature.
Happy cooking.
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