Evolution in the bible, says Vatican

News.com ^ | 11/7/05 | Mikey_1962

[Mikey_1962]

THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.

Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible were read correctly. His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US, who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.

"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself and had a creator".

This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the precise details of how creation and the development of the species came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science saw things so as to "understand things better".

His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the "intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that some higher being must have designed every detail.

[auntyfemenist]

The Bible says a day is as a thousand years to God.

[Dave S]

So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." it would be better to get some clarification from the Cardinal himself. Unless of course, someone would like to change Genesis with words to the affect of "He created man in his image and then gradually morphed man from an amoeba into a monkey and then finally a homo sapien."

If you are so hooked into this creating man in his own image stuff, are you saying God is Male and Female figure? Is He joined at the hip or what? Or does he have two sets of genitalia? That comes right from a literal reading of what you just said. Cant you accept being created in God's image as meaning that mankind was created as a conscious being with a soul?

[The Red Zone]

I can say the same about Hindu scripture or even the Quran. I can say the same about the scriptures of every religion that has scriptures. They're very functional in creating and maintaining a culture.

Most do manage to get people in a more or less ordered fashion from physical birth to physical death (except where it goes beyond a certain degree of warpage, like the Quran and the suicide bombing yoots). Various flavors of atheisms do too. My soul however just could not fit in any of these shoes.

[jwalsh07]

Psalms 90:4. :-}

[scottdeus12]

Mineral,

People were created in God's image, not the other way around.

How'd you become an Atheist after being a Christian, by the way?

[plain talk]

bump for later ponder

[MineralMan]

"The Hebrew story prevails out of proportion to its initial readership, not because of chance but because of logic.
"

Well, I tend to disagree with you on that one. The Hebrew Bible, meaning the Old Testament, alone, only has a small following...pretty much the same as it had back then.

In order for it to gain acceptance outside of Judaism, some new features had to be added. Jesus worked pretty well for that. By the time the New Testament was written, it included everyone on the planet.

It's a simple religion, Christianity. No tedious sacrifices to a host of minor deities. No treks to the temples. No pesky reincarnation nonsense. All you have to do is believe in this one thing and act nice and you're set.

It was a perfect match for the Greek, Roman, and Ottoman world. Simple to understand. Simple to follow. The Romans ended up having the strongest empire, and one of their leaders decided that Christianity was ideal. Much simpler than the old Pagan Roman religions.

So Rome spread Christianity around the world as it conquered. It's simplicity spread it everywhere else.

Only Islam shares the simplicity, and it's the second largest religion in the world.

Simplicity wins.

[jcb8199]

Exactly. This is why Jesus constantly put His message in parables that the people would easily understand--He knew His audience, and spoke to them in terms they'd understand. Kinda like the way the story of Creation was crafted to convey the meaning (God created everything) in an easy to understand format.

Keep in mind, as well, that there were lots of ancient polytheistic religions with similar creation stories; this is a classic case of adapting beliefs to make it easier to convert. Christians arriving in Europe didn't destroy all remnants of the pagan religions, as doing so would have worked against them. Instead, they said "Hey, you celebrate the Winter Solstice? Tell you what, let's still celebrate, but call it the Birth of Jesus. You celebrate samhein? Let's make it All Hallow's eve and All Saint's / Souls day(s). You celebrate the Equinox? Let's call it Easter." Same with the Jews--"You believe the earth was created from a primeval sea called abzu? Ok, it was God who made the abzu and God who created the ki (earth). You believe it was Ra who came out of the sea to form the Sun? Ok, how about this--God created the sun and the sea and the sky..."

[The Red Zone]

That deity was in charge of humans, so it made laws.

There was only one rule at the start. There had to be something to choose. One can't love an amorphous mass.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

At least you are consistent in your atheism. What I don't get are those who try to reconcile two obviously contrary things. You disbelieve all the miracles of the Bible. So you're consistent.

[Coyoteman]

Please if you are interested check out some of the web sites. Mt St. Helen's debunked a lot of theories about the evolution.

Sorry, still no evidence for a global flood. You can check out the CS websites all you want, Mt. St. Helen, Channeled Scablands, Grand Canyon, etc. There is no science in creation "science."

I have direct experience in archaeology in the western US (and don't need to check out a bunch of prepackaged websites). No evidence for a global flood.

Let me know if you want more details.

[Sols]

Oh gosh, you mean unsolidified ash can erode very quickly? This is surely equivocal to the consolidated STONE the Grand Canyon is composed of.

A forst buried by silt is not a petrified forest. It could eventually become one, of course, but it definitely is not yet.

Maybe you can use some more gross misrepresentation to explain amber while you're at it.

[MineralMan]

"Predestination arguments can drive a person stark raving mad crazy. "

Yes. It's a fun doctrine to discuss. I've had many fun times discussing it with various folks, starting with my Presbyterian pastor when I was in High School.

It's almost as much fun as transubstantiation. That's my favorite.

[The Red Zone]

Only Islam shares the simplicity, and it's the second largest religion in the world.

Simplicity (borrowing from the Old Testament) plus a lot of explicit hate hate hate. The Mooses seem unable to grok the Christian idea of agape, it's like been short circuited.

[NJ_gent]

"Adam and Eve were the sole progenitors of the human race"

Their offspring would have lacked the genetic diversity required for survival of a species. As I recall, for a species as complex as humans, it takes something like 24 individuals breeding in such a way as to maximize genetic diversity to establish a genetic base within the species strong enough to survive. Otherwise, genetic problems become amplified to such an extent that the species is exterminated by its own lack of diversity in rather short order.

Take two humans out to an island now and have them start a local population. The inbreeding will destroy them in just a few generations. Taking a trip through some parts of West Virginia or Arkansas will give you a peek as to what selective inbreeding will do to humans and give you some idea as to what exclusive inbreeding will do to them.

You also seem to lose sight of the fact that violations of God's law (as per Leviticus 18) would have to have taken place for Adam & Eve to have begun the human population on Earth.

"Literal traditional interpretation of the first chapters of Genesis is equally compatible with the Church."

It isn't compatible with the Catholic Church's teachings.

"It is not clear from the article what exactly Cardinal Poupard said and to what extent his views reflect the truths taught by the Church."

From my many years of Catholic schooling, I can tell you that literal interpretation of the Bible is incompatible with Catholic Church teachings. The Catholic Church teaches that the Old Testament, like Jesus later, used parables to teach lessons. Literal interpretation leads one to irreconcilable differences with obvious fact and turns the Bible into a caricature of itself, rather than a valuable book of teachings put forth to help people understand the whats and the whys of God's laws.

[jcb8199]

Which was what I was saying: God IS--the Great I Am. He is not in the past, nor the future. We created those things to further help us try to understand the present.

[Lauretij2]

All religion is false.. Seriously.. How can any 'truth' be molded and adjusted over time as constantly as they all are?

Science is only marginally better at accepting new theories, but it's based on the same human generated weaknesses that religions are.

Basically.. Nothing matters, there's no afterlife. What you think is God talking to you is endorphins. Period.

[zeeba neighba]

Well you are showing that the fault in your understanding lies not with God but with you.

First of all, as He reminds us, His ways are not our ways. He is Holy, something which we can never be, on our own. The Laws were not given to punish man or even restrict him, but were given to allow him to attain some measure of God's Holiness, if he could keep them. Man thought he could, but of course God knew better. Ten laws, under human lawyers, became 3oo+, then soon there were thousands of them.

Men weren't killed for not following God's law. They were destroyed because they loved themselves and evil, more than they loved God.

[js1138]

The vatican only speaks for the majority of catholics.

The Vatican provides authoritative teaching to all Roman Catholics, which means more than half of all the Christians in the world.

[Rokke]

"Cant you accept being created in God's image as meaning that mankind was created as a conscious being with a soul?"

I can accept that you can accept whatever you want. I don't really care what you choose to believe.