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Evolution in the bible, says Vatican
News.com ^ | 11/7/05 | Mikey_1962

Posted on 11/07/2005 12:05:04 PM PST by Mikey_1962

THE Vatican has issued a stout defence of Charles Darwin, voicing strong criticism of Christian fundamentalists who reject his theory of evolution and interpret the biblical account of creation literally.

Cardinal Paul Poupard, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, said the Genesis description of how God created the universe and Darwin's theory of evolution were "perfectly compatible" if the Bible were read correctly. His statement was a clear attack on creationist campaigners in the US, who see evolution and the Genesis account as mutually exclusive.

"The fundamentalists want to give a scientific meaning to words that had no scientific aim," he said at a Vatican press conference. He said the real message in Genesis was that "the universe didn't make itself and had a creator".

This idea was part of theology, Cardinal Poupard emphasised, while the precise details of how creation and the development of the species came about belonged to a different realm - science. Cardinal Poupard said that it was important for Catholic believers to know how science saw things so as to "understand things better".

His statements were interpreted in Italy as a rejection of the "intelligent design" view, which says the universe is so complex that some higher being must have designed every detail.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...


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KEYWORDS: catholic; crevolist; religion
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To: Russ_in_NC
"And God Said, 'Let "US" make man in "OUR" image.' Not let's evolve man into our image.

How can any Christian, think that God used evolution to make man, given the above passage?

Since I'm limited by my human understanding of the world, I'd consider it to be analogous to when I make a pie in the image of a pie I have in mind to make ... I don't just wave my hands, and huzzah there's a pie.

There are steps to making it. Getting the ingredients together. Mixing them. Cooking it. Letting it cool afterwards.

So, I don't see how making something assumes that there are not steps to make it.

Of course, God being God, he is unlimited, and could very well have instantly made whatever he wanted.

But, bein gunlimited, he could take all the time and varied processes he wanted to, as well.

You could almost imply from that passage, that the Vatican is saying that God too had to evolve since God had to use evolution to develope man. Do they even have a clue what they are saying?

How would that be different from implying that because an intelligent designer was used for humans, an intelligent designer would also be needed for THAT intelligent designer, etc.?

I think the idea of God as he exists implies that he's the one holding the end of the chain, and not necessarily part of the chain itself ...

201 posted on 11/07/2005 1:41:26 PM PST by bobhoskins (My comments make less sense now that I read them ...)
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To: scottdeus12

"...Should you be in Jail?
"

Not in any sensible society. I don't harm anyone. I don't steal stuff. I just don't happen to believe in the locally popular deity.

Yet, there are those who think I should be stripped of my citizenship, put in jail, or, worst of all, executed.

I'm sure you don't feel that way, and that's a good thing. There are those who do, though.

So, I study religion as self-defence.


202 posted on 11/07/2005 1:42:07 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: FeeinTennessee

Nothing exploding into something...a pretty nifty trick! /s


203 posted on 11/07/2005 1:42:08 PM PST by WKUHilltopper
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To: soltice
Who among us can state what a DAY is to GOD.

I, among us, can! As soon as someone defines God's inertial reference frame...

204 posted on 11/07/2005 1:42:25 PM PST by Dead Dog
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To: Zionist Conspirator
The entire New Testament is not to be lumped together and judged collectively. The Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John are eye witness accounts. The writings of Peter are suspect since he claims to speak on Gods behalf.

The Old Testament actually supports this "hooey" since it is a collection of oral traditions with the theme that man has often broken his covenants with God and God has altered the Covenant and re-issued it. The New Testament is is the "new and everlasting covenant" that supersedes all previous contracts between God and man.

205 posted on 11/07/2005 1:42:41 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: MineralMan
This is why sensible people do not interpret the Bible literally, but see it for what it is: allegorical tales told to a bunch of nomadic shepherds.

You've just done the intellectual equivalent of sliding off of a church steeple. It's not a computer program so it has to be a vastly fogged out tale that old sheepherders might have found adequate but can't be anything meaningful to we moderns. Congratulations on the fallacy.

206 posted on 11/07/2005 1:43:11 PM PST by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: Russ_in_NC

""And God Said, 'Let "US" make man in "OUR" image.' Not let's evolve man into our image.
"

Well, the other day, I made a loaf of bread. It started out as a bunch of ingredients, mixed together. I let it sit for several hours, then put it in an oven and baked it.

I made it, but there was a rather tedious process. When that process was complete, I ate it, and it was good.


207 posted on 11/07/2005 1:43:50 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Palisades
First of all, the rains fell for forty days and forty nights. The actual Flood lasted for a solar year. It might pay to actually read the text you are debunking.

That doesn't weaken my point. If anything, it strengthens it. Do you expect papyrus to survive a year-long submersion.

I still don't understand what this "papyrus" was that you keep raving about. What was it, an ancient romance novel or something?

Secondly, what papyrus? What are you talking about?

We have examples of writings on papyrus used by the Egyptians going back to close to 4000 BCE.

Bully for you.

The Egyptians were prolific record-keeper. We have more or less an unbroken series of writings from around 4000 BCE until today. It is interesting that the Egyptians never mentioned the occurence of a global flood.

Did they mention that a bunch of slaves once kicked their sorry @$$es and drowned them in the Red Sea?

Are you talking about the Torah Scroll from which the story of Creation and the Flood come?

Does that Torah Scroll still exist and how old is it?

Torah Scrolls are organic and eventually decay, at which point they have to be buried in a Jewish cemetery, next to the grave of a pious sage. But the original Torah Scroll exists in every kosher Torah Scroll in existence, which is written according to the strictest set of laws in existence to assure that each and every one is an exact duplicate of the original dictated by HaShem to Moses.

Besides, if the original Scroll still existed wouldn't you simply point out that it was written after the fact and is therefore unreliable?

Interesting that nothing in the Bible can be accepted without outside corroboration while things written by ancient pagans are accepted on faith.

208 posted on 11/07/2005 1:44:41 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vehe'emin BeHaShem, vayachsheveha lo tzedaqah.)
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To: MineralMan
Yet, there are those who think I should be stripped of my citizenship, put in jail, or, worst of all, executed.

The local Darwinists here must be amused at this, since for an atheist, you exhibit a mindset which they generally like to claim Christians exhibit.

209 posted on 11/07/2005 1:44:57 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: vpintheak
You are spot on. We have no physical record of all the buffalo slaughtered in the Plains because they turned to dust because they weren't covered. Things happen a lot more quickly than what many of our scientists say they do.

I've seen bones on the surface go to powder in about five years. So what?

This shows how lucky we are to have the good record of human evolution that we do have!

210 posted on 11/07/2005 1:45:22 PM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

IF (in whatever somewhat altered universe) utter Darwinism were the tale up to Adam, what stops God from stepping in and blowing the whistle at that point.


211 posted on 11/07/2005 1:45:37 PM PST by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: MineralMan
Moreover, it was written for a small group of nomadic shepherds. How would you tell such a group a creation story? You don't start talking about millions or billions of years to people who can't count past 20. You put it in terms they can understand.

By Numbers they sure learned.

212 posted on 11/07/2005 1:46:54 PM PST by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: rhombus
Maybe part of the intelligent design is evolution. Good plan, let us adapt to our changing environment. Smart guy, that designer.

Exactly, why is that so hard for people to understand ?

God created evolution.

213 posted on 11/07/2005 1:47:26 PM PST by oldbrowser (A living, breathing constitution is a usurpation of the people's sovereignty.)
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To: Palisades

I don't know.

And neither do you.


214 posted on 11/07/2005 1:47:40 PM PST by EternalPatriot (Have we lost our saltiness?)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

"Ex 20:11 -
" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. "




Yes, so it is written. And before it was written, it was the answer to the question of a child, no doubt. "Moses, why do we rest every seventh day?"

Simple explanations for simple folks. Symbolism as truth. The Sabbath is not diminished by this. 7 days is 1/4 of the time it takes for the moon to pass through all its phases. It's a small number. Folks who were nomadic shepherds couldn't comprehend larger numbers at that time.

Yet, they needed rest. They also worshipped on a regular basis. What's more neat than 7 days, something that relates to the phases of the moon?

And so it is written.


215 posted on 11/07/2005 1:47:46 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: highlander_UW

Well since Catholics are the majority of the world's Christians, then the original quote was correct.


216 posted on 11/07/2005 1:48:56 PM PST by jcb8199
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To: zeeba neighba

"Yet, the Word also says that Moses talked to God, face to face. Now how do you interpret that?"

Me? I interpret it as mythology. But I don't suppose that's a satisfactory interpretation for you. Simple fables told to nomadic shepherds running away from Egypt. They needed stories to help them understand their lot and the reason for their journey.


217 posted on 11/07/2005 1:49:44 PM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: NRA2BFree

"question it"
Kinda like the mistake of mankind ascribing his own methods to
God's--days, hours, etc.


218 posted on 11/07/2005 1:49:45 PM PST by jcb8199
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To: MineralMan

Indeed. why is the sky blue? And why will Scientology sell it, one piece at a time?


219 posted on 11/07/2005 1:50:10 PM PST by zeeba neighba (no crocs!)
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To: RonF
"Evolution is quite compatible with a belief in God. God is the intelligent designer. The laws of physics, chemistry, and biology are His handiwork and His tools for Creation. The flaw with ID is not that it posits an Intelligent Designer, but that it purports to be able to use science to prove His existence. "

The other major flaw with ID is that it posits that the mechanism the creator designed in order to change life (evolution through natural selection) is somehow unequal to the task and the creator had to actually do all the heavy lifting (by some unknown, unpredictable, unquantifiable mechanism). So the major flaw with ID is that they believe in an incompetent creator.
220 posted on 11/07/2005 1:50:41 PM PST by USConstitutionBuff
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