Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 17

[Slings and Arrows]

Previous thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1471591/posts

[shebacal]

Have you ever thought about Chavez of Venz. being involved in this scenario?

I don't know much about Chavez, except that he seems to want war with the US. Too bad that we need Venz. oil.

I have thought about the nearness of mainland Venezuela, and all the small, fast boats that must be making that 19 mile run re: drugs. How easy it would have been to cell-phone some gangster on the mainland to come pick her up.

Those 2 cell-phone calls haunt me. "I don't recognize any of these people". I think Natalee was in the PVDS house that night, probably surrounded by the evil son, the evil father, the bottom-feeding-remora-K-2's and that sleep-over-video-toting friend. God knows what they did to her there - that's why PVDS sweats buckets and freaked-out when TES offered to search his property to clear his name. He knows what he did.

[shebacal]

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=832

Beth Twitty Criticizes new New Round of Interviews by Prosecution in the Natalee Holloway Investigation

According to the AP, Beth Twitty is rather critical of the Prosecutions new interviews. It would appear that they want to question and re-question former classmates of Natalee Holloway in the United States. It seems to be Beth Twitty’s contention that the ALE have botched the case and only need to reinterview the Mountain Brook students because they messed up the original interviews with them and never initially asked important questions. The speculation has always been whether the ALE ever took the disappearance seriously in the first case.

Beth Holloway Twitty repeated her charge that Aruban officials ignored leads and botched case and said they only want to speak with former classmates because there were holes in their questions.

Snip...
Beth Twitty pushes forward with her criticisms of an investigation that is deserving. One can only imagine what would have come of this investigation without such persistence?

To continue reading:

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=832

[shebacal]

Oooops.
That post above was from Scared Monkeys:

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1829#more-1829

Sorry about that - too many windows going on.

[shebacal]

From America's Most Wanted:

www.amw.com

The Search For Natalee Holloway: A Producer's Diary - Day 2
10/26/2005

Tim Miller talks with the group about the search.This is the second in a series of journal entries AMW correspondent Rick Segall wrote as he searched in Aruba with Dave Holloway, Natalee Holloway's father, and the EquuSearch team.

I've never liked boats on the ocean, ever since I got sick on a deep-sea fishing charter as a kid. But after meeting Dave Holloway, there is nothing that can keep me from getting on the search boat today to search for Natalee Holloway. For me, it's not just about a young woman who keeps popping up in the headlines. It's about a father facing the reality that his little girl may be somewhere out in these impossibly blue waters. The more Dave talks about it, the more he forces me to contemplate having my own sweet daughter lost in the sea. I get teary-eyed every time I let myself go down that path.

Snip...Out On The Water
Back and forth. Back and forth. That's what the boat does all day. Further and further from shore. The EquuSearch experts keep an eye out for anything irregular. Nothing. Then a find late in the afternoon. The FISH picks up a large rectangular object about 40 feet down on the ocean floor. The discovery is both exciting and horrifying.

Everyone on the boat knows what we're looking for. The Deputy Chief of Police told Dave Holloway and the EquuSearch team to look out for a large steel fishing cage that was stolen from the same spot where Natalee Holloway was last seen. The theory is that Natalee may have been put in a fishing cage and dumped into the sea the night after she disappeared. Is this object on the ocean floor that fishing cage?

Snip...A Mysterious Find At The Bottom Of The Sea



I wish I were a certified diver. But without those skills, I have to stay on the boat while the pros slip on their scuba gear. Two divers head to the ocean floor to investigate the suspicious object. As hard as I try, I can't see anything 40 feet down, so I just follow their air bubbles as they break on the surface. They are gone for about 10 minutes. Finally, back to the surface. It is NOT a fishing cage. It is a large cement block. But the divers say it is suspiciously out of place.

The cement block could be a boat mooring. That sounds like a logical explanation to me, since lots of boats are sporadically moored in this area of the harbor. But the divers say the cement block has nearly no marine growth, indicating that it is brand new. And it has no hooks to moor a boat. I think maybe it just flipped over when it was dropped into the sea and the hooks are on the underside. But the EquuSearch team wants to determine if they need to bring this block to the surface for further investigation.

Now we're on a fact finding mission. The divers check out the moorings of several nearby boats to see if they all look the same. They find one that's similar, but nothing that's identical to the block we just found. So the EquuSearch volunteers mark the spot for further investigation. Then it's back to shore.

Snip...
Dave meets us on shore with his usual optimistic smile. I don't know how he does it. I know it helps to be with Tim Miller. Tim reminds us all that it was another successful day, pointing out that we cleared several more square miles on the map. Tim says "We have a better idea of where we won't find Natalee. Tomorrow is another day."

To continue reading:

www.amw.com

[No Surrender No Retreat]

Afternoon Shebacal,
Good logic and maybe we should just take crybaby chavez's oil empire.

I too, believe Natalee was in VDS house that crucial night. Maybe this is what the four perps do, when avds goes away on her secular trips.

Natalee may well be on the property of vds or in a foreign country harem.

Why our leader(s) let this island cess pool dictate to us, is repulsive. We should have the island quarantined until we meet our objective concerning Natalee.

Too bad, she was not a senator's or congressman's daughter. We would be seeing a much different approach in this case.

Possibly if Natalee were muslim or a NOLA refugee, our leaders would be breaking their legs to help.

Just Stating The Obvious, In A Delusional World,
NSNR-WNA "Who Needs aruba????"

[shebacal]

The cement block could be a boat mooring. That sounds like a logical explanation to me, since lots of boats are sporadically moored in this area of the harbor. But the divers say the cement block has nearly no marine growth, indicating that it is brand new. And it has no hooks to moor a boat. I think maybe it just flipped over when it was dropped into the sea and the hooks are on the underside.

I don't think this is a boat mooring with the hooks on the underside. No no no, that's not now it is done.

This is why. My husband, son and I made our own 800 lb cement mooring and placed it in Tomales Bay, CA for our sailboat. Before we hauled it over there to drop in the water, we imbeded into the wet cement a part of a big old bridge turnbuckle for the eye, then hooked the swivel shackle to the eye, then hooked on 75 feet of heavy chain, then another swivel shackle and then attached the mooring rope, with float attached to that.

You do not drop a concrete mooring block in deep water with no tackle attached to it, and then start worrying about how you are going to attach all the necessary tackle. You never want to let go of the bitter end of a mooring rope or chain. It's called the bitter end for a reason.

If a mooring block lands upside down, you just wench up on the mooring chain until it turns upright.

This cement block is not a upside down mooring block.

Didn't someone post that PVDS poured cement in his backyard after Natalee disappeared? Is this the Aruban version of the "cement overshoes of the mafia"? Is this the explanation of PVDS's comment, "No body - no case".

[shebacal]

now = how

[truthluva]

This may be a dumb question, but has anybody dug up the area around the cross? Maybe there is something else there.

[shebacal]

As far as I know there has been no digging around the cross. Hopefully, TES at least checked the area with their locating equipment.

There was digging reported at the fishermen's huts early on, and at the shallow "grave" hole found on the east side.

[deetch]

How about fingerprints?

[MAWG]

I am a certified diver in two disiplines, PADI and SSI. I agree with you Shebacal that the mooring they found is at the very least suspicous. However, I would have dumped a body in more than 40 feet of water.



God Bless our sweet Natalee.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

"It seems to be Beth Twitty’s contention that the ALE have botched the case and only need to reinterview the Mountain Brook students because they messed up the original interviews with them and never initially asked important questions."

ALE "reinterview" the MB students?

All this time I have believed that they never showed in interest in them, but that the FBI talked to them right away.......maybe I missed something long ago?

[shebacal]

How about fingerprints?

True. It's worth a try. I doubt that do-nothing DomPIG would have police do testing for prints. It would have to be done by TES, or someone hired privately by Dave.

If the cross was placed there by a friend or relative of someone who was involved or knows about disposal by sea, it's not too likely that person would be on a fingerprint database. Many people on the island would not have been previously fingerprinted, so it would be difficult to find a match.

Many tourists may have touched the cross since it appeared.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Wow! That cement looks easily large enough to contain a body......I hope the divers had the presence of mind to chip a bit of cement from it to compare forensically with whatever fresh cement is on the VDS property.

[Canadian Outrage]

The "boat witness" is interesting.

[Canadian Outrage]

I was wondering if it was Steve Croes also?

[shebacal]

All this time I have believed that they never showed in interest in them, but that the FBI talked to them right away.......maybe I missed something long ago?

I think any interviewing done with MB students was done by FBI. I think all the students had left the island during the day of 5/30/05, before Beth and party arrived to shake up the Aruban police.

Monday, May 30, 2005:

8:00 am..Chaperones go to all the MB kids’ hotel rooms, make sure all awake.
...Chaperones take headcount and notice Natalee is missing.

8:30 am...MBHS group meets in lobby of Holiday Inn for another head count. No one has seen Natalee.

9:00 am?...Two “beach bums” don’t report for work at a local surfshop. Both still missing without a trace.

10:30 am...MBHS group meets again in Holiday Inn lobby.
...Natalee’s roommates bring her luggage, purse & cellphone to lobby because checking out.
...MBHS group leaves hotel for airport.
...One male chaperone stays behind and books later flight for Natalee, hoping she will show up

11:30 am...Chaperone contacts hotel and beach patrol to report Natalee missing
...Chaperonoe thinks beach patrol is reporting disappearance to police, but they don’t.

. 11:55 am...Chaperone calls Twitty’s MB home. Natalee’s brother Matt takes the call

12:00 pm...Matt Holloway calls his mother Beth Twitty. Reaches her in Arkansas. Says Natalee is missing.
...Beth Twitty calls 911. Says she knew within seconds Natalee had been kidnapped.

12:00 pm...Matt Holloway calls his father Dave Holloway in Mississippi. Says Natalee is missing.

12:20 pm..Beth Twitty & two friends leave Arkansas & drive back to Birmingham
...Beth pulled over for speeding. Tells highway patrol the situation. They give her FBI’s number
...Beth calls FBI from her cellphone enroute to Mountain Brook, AL (Birmingham)

2:00 pm...Chaperone contacts trip’s travel agent about Natalee. Books later flight?
...MBHS students leave Aruba on first of two flights back to Birmingham, AL via Atlanta, GA
...Chaperone in Aruba calls on Natalee’s cellphone (setup for US calls) to ask students about Joran

2:45 pm...School day ends for Joran

4:00 pm...Deepak email says he went to work @ Cyberzone Cafe

??pm...Natalee’s cousins Hunter & Thomas Twitty tell Jug Twitty about Joran van der Sloot

5:45 pm...Word starts circulating on Aruba that Natalee is missing

6:00 pm...DEA agent in Aruba contacts chaperone at Holiday Inn & sets up meeting at hotel

6:30 pm...(5:30 CDT) Chartered jet leaves Birmingham with Beth & Jug Twitty & other MBHS parents

8:00 pm...DEA agent meets with chaperone at Holiday Inn

9:00 pm...Chaperone calls Aruba police to check on progress only to find out beach patrol never reported it

11:00 pm...Beth & Jug Twitty & MBHS parents’ plane lands in Aruba.

...Three Arubans who work for an international company meet flight to help them

11:00 pm...Deepak email says he’s off work and calls Joran who’s at Radisson casino

11:30 pm....Deepak email says he meets Joran at Radisson casino

11:30 pm...Beth & Jug Twitty & MB group meet with FBI agent Eric Williams at Holiday Inn

[Canadian Outrage]

Do you remember a long time ago there being mention that CC was possibly CIA? I don't think so myself but you never know because they actually HAVE to make like they are playing both sides. The "power" that PVDS has imo is that he likely has some dirt on some of the high officials in the Justice Department. I can't see this whimpish shifty man being any more important than perhaps having some knowledge about officials. He's not SMART enough to pass a Judge's examination so I doubt he's smart enough to be a Mafia type. He simply has connections in the Justice department. This island is used to COVERING it's dirt and the fact is it is COMPLETELY CORRUPT. They do NOT want that to get out. The MAJOR complication in this case is the fact that it was Van der Sloots SON that is the murderer. He can't have his son be convicted as a murderer.

[shebacal]

I hope the divers had the presence of mind to chip a bit of cement from it to compare forensically with whatever fresh cement is on the VDS property.

Good thought. I hope TES went back, or goes back and raises it to find out what is inside.

[Canadian Outrage]

Tex I think Joran Killed Natalee in anger also. For one thing she is like 5'2" and 102 pounds and JVDS is 6'5" and probably close to 200 pounds. Combine that with anger and sexual rage and her being drugged - she didn't have a chance.