Posted on 10/06/2005 10:18:56 PM PDT by Ol' Sparky
Well good for you. It looks like you've found a happy home and I'm happy for you. I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of my postings. I'll try to do better, just for you, but I doubt you are a real meanie:)
The affirmative action candidate female FD recruit going to law school applying to the FD is accepted with a lower SAT score than others who have higher scores height/weight requirement than others. Based on socio-economic factors, generally gender.
The affirmative action student female FD recruit has the same standards applied once in law school on the job at the FD.
The problem is affirmative action prevents more qualified students from attending.
Why wouldn't the same apply to the case of the FD?
Wouldn't non-minority applicants who met the new, lower standard (but not the old standard) be at a disadvantage based on their race? My point is, when the rules are altered to achieve racial or gender diversity, you can't avoid discriminating against some other race or gender.
The difference is that applicants for the FD are not given preference over others more qualified based on socio-economic reasons as in the Law School example. I understand your point but it is an unequal comparison. Lowering weight or height requirement does not give a woman any advantage over men or others competing for the same FD job. The affirm action law student has an advantage over more well qualified students to get into the school. It is unfair.
not directed at you personally.
I went searching to see what the Physical Ability Test was in Dallas. Evidently they don't yet have it published on the net.
I did find Houston's PAT and I don't know that it would be all that different from Dallas requirements. So without taking any sides, here are Houston's PAT requirements:
Physical Ability Test
The Houston Fire Department uses a job-related physical ability test designed to test determine if an applicant has the strength and endurance needed to perform the job duties of a Firefighter. These job duties require balance, coordination, strength, endurance, and cardio-vascular fitness. Applicants will be tested over seven (7) timed, pass/fail events while wearing gloves and an air pack because Firefighters are required to wear Self-Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) and other heavy protective clothing while functioning at emergency incidents. The events include:
Balance Beam Walk
Ladder Extension
Stair Climb
Equipment Hoist
Portable Equipment Carry
Rescue Attempt
1.5 Mile Run
Balance Beam Walk: Balance Beam Walk: Within 30 seconds, one must walk the entire length of the beam. One fall off the beam will be allowed. The applicant must return to the start of the walk and finish the entire walk with no extra time allotted. If the applicants feet touch the ground before they touch or cross the finish line, this constitutes a fall.
Rationale: Firefighters are required to walk near open excavations, or rafters, on roofs, and around other openings during firefighting and rescue operations. They must be able to maintain balance for their safety, safety of co-workers, and for the safety of the people they are rescuing.
Hint: Practice balance.
Ladder Extension: Ladder Extension: Within 1 minute, an applicant must fully extend and lower the fly section of a 24 aluminum extension ladder by using the hand-over-hand method. The applicant must remain standing with both feet in the designated area. Their feet may touch the lines of the painted square, but they may not step outside the square while performing this task. At no time during the task will the applicant be allowed to let the rope slide through his/her hands.
Rationale: Emergency incidents may occur several stories above ground or in rough terrain. Firefighters must be able to raise ladders in order to perform their duties as Firefighters.
Hint: Strengthen back, arms, and abdominals.
Stair Climb: Stair Climb: Within 3 minutes 30 seconds, an applicant must pick up, shoulder hold, and carry two (2) 50 sections of hose, tied in a "Brown Fold," then climb and descend six (6) flights of stairs. The applicant must carry the hose, not drag or roll the hose, through the entire course. No penalty is given for dropping the hose, but it must be picked up and carried from the point of the drop.
Rationale: Emergency incidents may occur several stories above ground. Firefighters must be able to gain access and transport equipment to emergencies occurring several stories above ground.
Hint: Condition shoulders, back, legs, and abdominals.
Equipment Hoist: Within 1 minute, an applicant standing on the 3rd floor of the drill tower, using the hand-over-hand method, must hoist one section of 2 ½" hose (44 lb.) from the ground up to the 3rd floor window, and then lower the hose back to the ground. The applicant must remain standing with both feet in the designated area. At no time during the task will the applicant be allowed to let the rope slide through his/her hands. Stepping outside the designated area to lengthen the pull, placing a foot on the windowsill or wall, and/or dropping the equipment is not allowed.
Rationale: Firefighters are required to hoist tools and equipment to upper floors and roofs during operations. They are also required to use ropes to rescue people by hoisting and/or lowering them.
Hint: Strengthen back, arms, and abdominals.
Portable Equipment Carry: Portable Equipment Carry: Within 1 minute, an applicant must pick up an equipment/accessory box (Hurst, or Amkus, extrication tools) (70 lb.) from a 2 stand and carry it 50 in one direction, turn around to carry it back 50 and then place the box on a 3 stand. No penalty is given for dropping the box, but it must be carried (not dragged or pulled) the entire distance.
Rationale: Firefighters are required to lift and transport heavy equipment at emergencies, which must be done in a timely manner and may require covering considerable distances.
Hint: Strengthen shoulders, arms, and abdominals.
Rescue Attempt: Within 30 seconds, an applicant must carry or drag a 150 lb. human dummy, 30 feet. The applicant must have both the dummy and him/her self completely across the finish line to successfully accomplish this task. No penalty will be assessed for dropping the dummy; however, no additional time will be allowed.
Rationale: Firefighters are required to carry/rescue incapacitated citizens or fellow firefighters from the scene of fires and/or other emergency situations. The 30 foot distance is approximately the width of two rooms in an average house.
Hint: Strengthen legs, back, arms, and abdominals.
1.5 Mile Run: Within 13 minutes 7 seconds, an applicant must run 1.5 miles.
Rationale: In 1992 Jeanneret & Associates developed and validated a pre-employment physical ability test which concluded that safe, effective performance of certain critical, physically demanding components of firefighting requires cardiovascular fitness.
Hint: Cardio-vascular training and running.
These tests are representative of tasks done on the job by a Firefighter, Emergency Medical Technician, and/or Paramedic. Chances for passing the physical ability test can be greatly increased with adequate preparatory physical training. Physical training should emphasize cardio-respiratory fitness, strength, and muscular endurance.
The "Hint" sections above offer recommendations from the Fire Departments Physical Ability Testing Coordinator, degreed in physical education. These are recommendations only and do not guarantee the proper conditioning for passing the physical ability testing.
*Before beginning any exercise program, consult a physician.
Oops, forgot the link:
http://www.houstontx.gov/fire/employment/applicantprocedure.html
Modifying height and weight limits is hardly modification of a performance standard. I'm not so sure about the eyesight requirements.
Interesting choice you made about carring a particular kind of load. Carrying 150 lbs. of **** sounds like something you have a lot of esperience with. Finally, something you can probably speak with authority on. I think the congrats belong to you!....lol
I'm betting you're one of those guys who have MAJOR issues with women.
I'm married and have no problem with women in the right place. I do have a problem with woman put into positions that endanger others lives. And this is now happening daily in America.
Wearing 90 pounds of gear, dragging large men and women sometimes 75 feet, out of fully engulfed structures is no place for a woman. Period. I have no patients for PC types like yourself.
I have seen people die hard early deaths due to this political correctness. I am not happy about that at all and I will let anyone know it.
Here is a a tiny example of killer political correctness that just happened to make the news recently. It cost 4 good people their lives, and deeply affected over 200 of their freinds and loved ones.
It only made the news because it turned the city of Atlanta upside down for several days.
A a 53 year old grandma is put in charge of guarding a prisoner in Atlanta Georgia, when the 6'2" former football player inmate she was guarding busts her jaw, and drops her like a bag of garbage, and the prisoner proceeds to blow a judges brains out along with his stenographer/court reporter, kills a cop in cold blood out in front of the damn court house and then killed an innocent federal agent that just happened to cross paths with this monster.
Why did this happen?
Because of politically correct BS!! People are dying over this PC insanity! And I have zero patients for it.
Thanks for proving my point in your very first sentence!
I went through the article briefly. Actually the less I know the better. She's a Wild Card nominee for the Supreme Court. Possibly someone who will be a dissenting voice. Someone not far from filling the shoes of Justice Sandra Day O'Connor. Not the Conservative preference but not someone who shouldn't be considered.
You brought Roberts up and this is about Miers.
Trying to disparage Miers by comparing her to Roberts is absolutely a low thing to do. I called you on it because that is EXACTLY what I predicted the demonrats to do, and lookee at what Russ Feingold is saying today -- he wants Miers to produce MORE documents and provide MORE answers because he claims Roberts was more qualified.
I absolutely think Jim Robinson ought to do whatever he deems appropriate to point out this kind of TROLL behavior. It should not be accepted here at FR. THAT's why I ping him from time to time. To his credit, he listens.
"Trying to disparage Miers by comparing her to Roberts is absolutely a low thing to do. "
Ok, it's disparaging miers to say her judicial philosophy should be pro-constitution like roberts said his was, and not "pro business" like you wanted it to be?
And then you ping the operator of this site in what, and attempt to bully me into stopping?
What a strange, sad world you must live in.
I want what I'm pretty sure the operators of this site want, since I've read their mission statement many times. I want a a justice who will be there to defend the sanctity of the constitution, not the interests of business or government or anything else. Just the constitution.
And to make it easier for everyone to understand, I cited the example of what Roberts said in his testimony (and everybody here applauded when he said it) - and you call that trolling?
Because why, I disagree with you and made your desire for a pro-business justice look petty?
I'm sorry, that's just pathetic. And I'm sorry for Jim Robinson being pinged by you every time you disagree with someone enough.
You're behaving like a TROLL who tried to disparage Miers by comparing her to Roberts.
I never attempted to compare the two. They were both nominated by the same man. You keep wanting to discredit Miers for not being like Roberts. That's TROLL behavior.
I like the fact that Miers has a business background. I like the fact that Roberts provided such a great education on constitutional law.
But I will never stoop to act like the democrats are acting, like you have done.
And no it's not bullying. It's sharing insights into the behavior of a TROLL, for the good of FR.
"You keep wanting to discredit Miers for not being like Roberts"
Show me EXACTLY where I tried to discredit her for not being like roberts, or retract your statement.
I am getting sick of you and howlin playing your little games.
Show me exactly where I said that.
"You keep wanting to discredit Miers for not being like Roberts"
Show me where, or stop trying to say I did it.
"Think back to the roberts hearing. This is where I'm coming from."
Ok, it's disparaging miers to say her judicial philosophy should be pro-constitution like roberts said his was, and not "pro business" like you wanted it to be?
For the record, I like the fact that Miers has experience running a business, so putting words into my mouth by changing my appreciation of her business experience into my saying she's pro business and ergo, she's not pro constitution, is a very low debating tactic. It's wholly invalid and illogical to boot. And changing what I said to fit into your demonrat-approved ploy of disparaging Miers for not being like Roberts is nothing but troll behavior.
I'm not surprised that you'd force me to show you when you did it yourself, but then again, you don't really have any integrity.
Your points are correct. So-called political correctness is sick garbage and should be thrown out like the garbage that it is.
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