Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 15

I don't recall who said it rolling stone BUT I do recall the Prosecutor stating early on that Paulus Van der Sloot was INTERFERING in the case!! Now I find THAT significant don't you? I just couldn't hardly believe it when they released this t*rd from jail. On that one I do believe a Judge was somehow "selected" to effect his release from jail. I won't EVER forget his eyes when he came out of the jail with his Lawyer. He didn't know where to look - up, down, sideways, down again and then his bumbling Lawyer who couldn't put a sentence together let PVDS say, "I want to go to my wife", "I no comment"!! This was a HUGE blow to Beth, Jug, Dave and the rest of the family. Then wouldn't you know that the Kalpoe's got released within a day or two later. Poor Beth.

~use spell checker~

Good night stlnative!! Let's see what the morrow brings!

You know what I realized tonight, is that I had the Kalpoe brothers mixed up. It's Satish that looks like Satan and Depak that looks like a deer in the headlights. (no really, draw horns on him and a longer goatee ;) )

I think his whole point was to discredit the gardner, I think, because the Holloways and Twitty's have said he's credible.

I'm not sure I've ever seen this deliberate of a spin machine. (Heard about them, but not ever seen it in action)

Well it's getting pretty slow freepers, so I'll say goodnight also. May tomorrow exceed all our expectations!! CO

Spinning is right. UGH!!

Good night!

But you can walk in about any "hip" bar at around 1am and see last call body shots going on.

Exactly, which is why I really have resisted saying much about C&Cs and what was or wasn't going on there. Bars and beaches are a heck of a combination. :)

Night, talk to you later.

Agree, this lawyer felt a need to step forward now, to lay out his client's timeline. He was sending signals for a reason.

Every word was measured and had a specific purpose.

Do you remember what time Deepak was allegedly washing his car?

oooh, good point. 2:30 comes to mind, but so does 3:30. I'll try to look in a few minutes and see if I can find that.

I wonder how Deepak explains his little "transaction" at CnC last night? The one captured on video?

I finally got the video to load and play, and then saw the little packet that was waved around. I have never seen drugs, or the way they are packaged, but it sure looks like it could be drugs to me.

I don't suppost the Aruban LE would be the slightest bit interested in this video as to whether there was drug dealing going down and caught on tape.

Tito on SM says he is trying to set up an interview with Paulus for Tito and Greta.

Then the fix must be in for sure. How interesting that tito wants to be in on the interview.

I dunno about that. He gave that info in response to a question of would he be doing further PVDS interviews and maybe sweat him out in a James Bond manner. Imagine, Tito as Bond!
"Lacle...Tito Lacle." I can't stop laughing!

Anyway, here's more Tito info:

jogger still missing as of this afternoon..
dunes still being searched.. landfill trying to get in.. need manpower and equipment.. according to Fred Golba. he needs 25 marines and 2 bulldozers.. and some other equipment

-------

I must say, I love Golba's bring in the marines idea. Or one Texas Ranger!

Well, Tito has left no doubt on where he stands. He's on a mission and it ain't from God.

Here is his post from SM:

QUESTION FOR THE MONKEES.. ..

HAVE YOU EVER THOUGHT OF BEING ON THE OTHER SIDE.. ??

ORRRR... EVEN WORSE.. IF NATALEE WAS A GOOD GIRL.. WHY WOULD SHE HOP INTO ANOTHER CAR.. WHILE HER FRIENDS TELL HER NOT TO.. DID SHE NOT ASK FOR IT? OOKEE.. NOW.. WARPING BACK TO REALITY.. OR TO WHAT WE KNOW..

Disgusting!

NANCY GRACE Aired August 23, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the countdown is on for the jail door to swing wide open for prime suspect in the disappearance of the Alabama student, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. Can Aruban prosecutors pull it together and submit a case to the court to keep judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot behind bars? Plus, we go live to a Montana homicide trial, where it`s alleged tiny infants, babies, were force-fed cold medicine at Tiny Tots Day Care. Why? To make them shut up and take naps until baby Dane Heggem suffocated in his sleep.

But tonight, to Aruba, day 86 in the case of missing Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway. The clock is ticking for a courthouse meltdown, just 11 days left until suspect number one, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, could walk free. Tonight in Aruba, Jossy Mansur. He is the managing director and editor of "Diario" newspaper. Natalee`s mother is with us, Beth Twitty. In LA, defense attorney Debra Opri. In West Palm Beach, defense attorney Michelle Suskauer. In New York, forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky and psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere.

But first, let`s go to WBMA-TV reporter Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, bring us up to date, friend.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, WBMA-TV: Nancy, first of all, a judge made a ruling today. When it comes to the defense asking prosecution to give them more or all access to all materials in this case, the judge denied that request, although prosecution has been saying all along that the defense in this case has access to all the materials necessary for them to give appropriate defense to their clients.

Also, no questioning still today for Joran Van Der Sloot. If you remember, it was the Thursday before last when the questioning ceased. So far, there is no timeline when the questioning will resume. Dutch behavioral specialists are back on the island, ready to question him. Again, no timeline when that will resume.

Also, the jogger, the latest witness that police are talking about -- this is supposedly the man who called police from a public phone several days after Natalee Holloway disappeared, saying that he saw the car with the Kalpoe brothers and Joran by the racquet club the night that she disappeared. Police are still looking for him. They`re not able to find him because the man, again, called from a public phone and did not leave his name -- Nancy.

GRACE: You know, that was a question we had last night, Jossy, as to why the Aruban police could not trace that phone call from a jogger, a jogger escaping the heat on the island of Aruba the night Natalee went missing. That`s the apparent explanation of why he was out jogging at that time of the night. Jossy, if this is true and he called from a public phone, true, police cannot trace who he is, but it would also give credence. Was that public phone near where Natalee Holloway disappeared?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": That`s what I understand, that this jogger also saw the same car parked at the same spot by the racquet club. However, he did call from a public telephone, and I don`t know whether the police can trace it or not. But according to information I have, they cannot.

GRACE: Well, they already know it`s from a public phone. They know where it was. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: I fully believe that he knows exactly where Natalee`s body is. I do. And you know, that being said, whether she`s alive or not, yes, because I can`t -- I honestly cannot -- cannot say that I definitively know. But I do know that Paul Van Der Sloot, yes -- yes. I know he knows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Natalee Holloway`s mother is with us tonight. Beth, thank you for being with us. Why are you so sure that Paulus Van Der Sloot and Joran Van Der Sloot know where Natalee or her body is?

TWITTY: You know, Nancy, Joran and Paul have done this to themselves. You know, they`ve -- they`ve had -- they`ve done the lies all along. You know, if they would have just come forward from the beginning, never changed their story, you know, we wouldn`t have these suspicions. But there -- you know, there`s no reason to tell a lie and -- you know, if you have no involvement or you don`t know where she is.

And also, we know that Joran has -- you know, he admitted these sexual assaults that he performed on Natalee. That has never been a secret. And you know, Paulus Van Der Sloot has changed his story. He admitted to us on the night of the 31st that he picked them up at 4:00 AM, and then when I was in his home one day, I think that was maybe June -- oh, I`m not sure if it was June 21 that I was at the judge`s home -- and he changed the time to 11:00 PM on the 29th.

I mean, you just don`t do that. A grown man cannot keep changing the times if he has nothing to hide or no involvement.

GRACE: Beth, you stated that Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed to a sex assault with Natalee. What did he say?

TWITTY: I cannot repeat them, Nancy, but he did admit to these sexual assaults that he committed against Natalee.

GRACE: Well, you know what? Very quickly, Debra Opri, I know that you are typically a criminal defense attorney. But here you`ve got this guy with Natalee Holloway the night she goes missing, and he confesses, allegedly, to a sex assault on the girl. What`s the story, that after he assaulted her, somebody else came along and either kidnapped or murdered her? Ridiculous!

DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you`re missing a major point here. We also know that there have been many contradictory additional confessions coming out of these people, additional statements. And if they contradict each other, which statement do we believe? You`re hanging your hat on one statement. I don`t think that`s the way to go, Nancy. We should cumulatively look at all of their statements and find out which of those statements match the other people`s.

GRACE: Beth, response?

TWITTY: Well, I knew that was going to be a question, and there is a specific reason why I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that these sexual assaults were committed against Natalee, but I cannot disclose it because it`s part of the investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You know what, Beth? You know what, Beth? I have found after many, many years, more years than I even want to say, of prosecuting felony crimes, when a victim`s family believes something, I have found it more often than not to be true. Why? The victim`s family wants the right perpetrator. They don`t want to see an innocent person framed and the real perpetrator walking free. With us tonight from Aruba is Natalee`s mother, Beth Twitty.

I want to go back to Jossy Mansur with "Diario" magazine. Jossy, I want to get everything I can from you that you know about this jogger. Could you just tell me, what night is it the jogger calls police about what he saw?

MANSUR: I think it was two or three nights after Natalee disappeared. I don`t know. I don`t have any of the answers to that. I don`t know any of the facts involved. I know that the police have put out a call for him. They`ve requested us to publish it, where we did publish a request for this man to come forward. And they`ve been on the radio and everywhere else, asking for this jogger to show up, to give his testimony.

GRACE: You know, Jossy, last night, right as we were -- were going to a commercial break, you told me divers were going to start diving again today. And I asked you, For what? Anything specific? And you said, Remains. Where did you get that information? What are you talking about?

MANSUR: I got it from the people that are organizing the next dive. I got it also from Art Wood, who is with another search team down here voluntarily with some kind of specialized equipment that he has that can detect bones or things similar to that of human beings at any distance.

So he did make his tests over that. He did find some item of interest. And they went Sunday. They did the first dive. I know because my son is involved in it. Both my sons are involved in it. Then they came back, they studied the area, they plotted the area again, now much larger. And they`re going back this week sometime, either Thursday or Friday, to do the real diving, to search for whatever this man found on this machine.

GRACE: OK, would it be side-scan sonar? Is that what you`re talking about?

MANSUR: I don`t know what kind of an equipment it is, Nancy, but...

GRACE: OK.

MANSUR: ... I understand that he could identify something down there.

GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. Doctor, do you think they`re referring to side-scan sonar, that was used in the Laci Peterson search?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes, it`s quite possible. You know, I got to say, Nancy, the reason that this whole thing is so frustrating is there have been so many ups and downs. There isn`t even enough information to charge Joran Van Der Sloot, let alone get a conviction. And I think that unless something happens within the next few days, it`s going to be a continuation of what we`ve heard day in and out. No change.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know if I agree with that because I really believe, at some juncture, the Aruban government is going to make good on the theory that they would retake the Kalpoe brothers back into custody after this gardener gives his sworn statement.

Anastasiya Bolton, it`s been several days since the gardener gave his statement clearly placing the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot near the pond, well after they said they had gone home.

BOLTON: That`s right. They promised that they were going to rearrest the Kalpoe brothers if the statements matched up, which they did. But again, everything happens in Aruba on Aruban time. They play by their own rules. So again, we may see the Kalpoe brothers being rearrested, or we may not.

GRACE: To Beth Twitty. Beth, when I hear that Joran Van Der Sloot has not been interrogated since Thursday last, a week ago this past Thursday -- we`re coming up on two weeks -- what`s the hold-up, Beth?

TWITTY: You know, Nancy, who would know? I don`t even think Joran could answer that, at this point. He certainly had early -- early on, he had every opportunity, as early as June 9, to get this over with, to begin, you know, giving a statement. And you know, some people have asked, since it`s gone on so long, Is he able to do it now? Well, you know, Nancy, he had plenty of time in the beginning. He had ample time -- June 9, June 10, June 11, 13, repeatedly. And he chose never to give the correct statement. I mean, he just chose to lie each time.

GRACE: You know, another issue, to Jossy, is Paulus Van Der Sloot. We were talking to Beth Twitty about the various statements. Well, what this gardener, who you dug up, Jossy Mansur, you brought him to light -- this gardener not only directly contradicts the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot`s statement, but the father, the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot`s statement. I mean, if you`re to believe this gardener, Jossy, Van Der Sloot is lying through his teeth, and him a judge!

MANSUR: That is correct because the gardener`s story that he upheld, that he really stuck to in front of the judge and all these defense lawyers and the two suspects being present, does destroy the alibi and the statements made by Paul Van Der Sloot of his picking up this boy.

GRACE: Beth, what are the locals doing to find this jogger, the anonymous tipster?

TWITTY: I know that they`ve put information in the newspapers and possibly in the local media. And as far as any other additional resource, I don`t know how they`re trying to pursue this individual.

GRACE: And to Anastasiya Bolton, before we go to break -- Anastasiya, I understand regarding, the arm that washed up on a beach in Venezuela, clearly a human arm -- we all know that the ME there knows whether it`s a woman or a man, OK? That can be determined pretty quickly. Why can`t they send a sample of that arm to Aruban authorities, Anastasiya, so we can make a comparison to Natalee`s DNA?

BOLTON: Nancy, there is not an agreement between Venezuela and Aruba. Right now, I`m told that they`re working on diplomatic channels to get a sample for them to test it. But as of now, there is not an agreement that they can exchange this type of evidence and make an examination for themselves.

GRACE: So what do we have to have, then -- very quickly, to Jossy -- an international agreement? I mean, don`t we all want the same thing, the truth?

MANSUR: Yes, it`s true. But they have very close contacts between the police of Aruba and some police corps in Venezuela. I think they`re trying to handle it through personal contacts more than anything else because there is no treaty or accord or whatever between the two countries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: There`s no way that they would have participated in this elaborate lie in front of her -- in front of me and in front of Jug and in front of all of the family members that flew in if they weren`t covering something up. There is no way that you would have the need to do that. And then I only think back to Deepak and how he approached me that night, and I was staring into his eyes and his head was held high that night. He was telling me the lie. But he couldn`t even face me at the Internet cafe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live in Aruba in the latest in the case of Natalee Holloway, the 18-year-old American girl missing many, many days now.

Very quickly to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. Doctor, let`s talk about this arm, this severed arm that was found on the Venezuelan coast. Elizabeth, could you throw up that map, please? Doctor, can they determine immediately -- well, just tell me, what can they determine immediately from a bone?

KOBILINSKY: Well, examination of the bone certainly reveals -- I mean, you can see it on the photograph -- that the soft tissue is essentially gone. So obviously, you can tell gender. But in order to go beyond...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! You said you can determine gender, correct?

KOBILINSKY: Well, the anthropologists can make certain measurements. You can determine the individual`s height and approximate age. There are certain minimal things you can determine.

GRACE: I`m asking you gender, gender. It`s my understanding that you can look at a bone, if you`re an anthropologist, and determine if it`s a man or a woman.

KOBILINSKY: Well, that`s correct, within certain limits. But you know, in biology, there are gray zones, so I can`t guarantee that they can do gender. But one thing is for sure, when they do any kind of DNA testing, they will be able to determine not only gender but if it`s Natalee or not.

GRACE: Well, you know, they said immediately that they could not determine gender, and that is total BS. They can look at the structure of the bone, they can look at the size of the bone, and determine gender. I fully believe that, Doctor.

KOBILINSKY: I think it depends how conservative the analyst is. And in a case that`s high-profile, you don`t want to make any mistakes.

GRACE: You know, another thing I don`t understand, Beth, is why -- the whole world knows about Natalee missing. The world knows. Why can`t we take a sample of this bone and rule out that it`s Natalee?

TWITTY: Well, I hope that we can. It`s something that -- you know, I really don`t have that much information about this. I don`t even know where the bone was found. But I mean, I`m certain that it`s something that does need to be ruled out. We need to find whose it is, anyway, Nancy.

GRACE: I want to go to Jeff Gardere. Dr. Gardere`s a clinical psychologist. I want to talk about this jogger, who may be able to corroborate the gardener. Why, Jeff, am I so interested in that tonight? Because Aruban government authorities still have not taken the Kalpoe brothers and Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot back into custody for questioning. And if this jogger exists, if it`s real, he corroborates what the gardener says, and they both contradict the judge and the Kalpoe brothers.

JEFFREY GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. And I think, in watching this story as we have been, it`s almost possible to surmise that there is a lot of information that is not being given by that government. And perhaps we don`t know how hard they really are looking for this particular gardener. Now, there might be -- one of the reasons he may not be showing up is because he may have some issues as far as citizenship there in Aruba. Maybe he`s afraid that he may be going against the locals, since there has been a rift between the locals and with Beth Holloway Twitty because she has been so persistent in finding her daughter. So there are reasons that he may be kept away from the courts.

GRACE: Gotcha. To Anastasiya Bolton with WBMA-TV -- Anastasiya, September 4, the clock is ticking, Van Der Sloot may walk free. What does the prosecution have to put up to keep the judge`s son behind bars September 4 -- 11 days?

BOLTON: I`ve been told that the prosecution has to present its strongest case yet. Obviously, there`s not been enough evidence yet to charge Joran Van Der Sloot. So on September 4, or days before that, they will have to present enough evidence to keep Joran behind bars, either to, A, charge him, they can release him, or he can be held for 30 additional days, if the judge decides it fit.

GRACE: So bottom line, Michelle Suskauer, defense attorney out of West Palm Beach, Florida, the prosecution`s got to have a little bit more than what they had last time. They got to put up a good case. And I just say that this jogger is additional evidence. Of course, last time, Michelle, they didn`t have the gardener, either, when they got Joran Van Der Sloot.

MICHELLE SUSKAUER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And you know, we don`t know what the jogger really saw. We only have a little bit of information. And I don`t know whether they`re ever going to find this person. Just like your last speaker said, there may be some intimidation. And I don`t know how -- the gardener`s testimony is just not going to be enough, coupled with speculation and guesswork, to keep this kid in jail. He is going -- if the prosecution doesn`t have anything else, he is walking out on September 4.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: There have been points where I`ve been so angry, just angry at what all we`ve been through. If you`re the victim of a crime in Aruba, it`s sad and you have no rights. It seems like -- seems like the suspect has all the rights, and you know, poor Natalee has had absolutely none.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Truer words never spoken. That`s Natalee`s mother, who is with us tonight.

Very quickly to Jossy Mansur, the managing director and editor of "Diario" newspaper. Jossy, you told me they were going to start diving again today for remains. Why didn`t they start diving today, like you said?

MANSUR: Because they`re putting together the diving team. The diving team is not that easy to gather. I mean, this is a small island. I mean, they`re thinking of gathering between 12 and 20 people to go out there and search.

GRACE: Where is it they`re going to dive, Jossy?

MANSUR: They want to dive to the west of the hotels.

GRACE: Beth, thank you so much for being with us. As always, our thoughts and our prayers with Natalee`s mom and her family. Jossy, Anastasiya, we`ll see you guys tomorrow night.

Aruba must register lesbian marriage

One last note, did I hear Tito correctly on Greta: they know the jogger's name, just haven't located him.

Unbelievable.

It's Aruba, FGS.

How hard is it to find someone on that _island_?

(Sorry to all the Aruba apologists. But.give.me.a.break.)

Who are the Aruban apologists?