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Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 5
Various News Outlets | 7/4/05

Posted on 07/04/2005 6:39:22 PM PDT by TexKat

Mountain Brook High School graduate Natalee Holloway went missing May 30 during a senior trip to Aruba.

AP photo


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: aruba; bethholloway; boycottaruba; fubaruba; jossymansur; kalpoes; mariainecroes; natalee; nataleeholloway; rubentrapenberg; vandersloots
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To: Palladin

You may be right about Natalee being an outsider. Maybe it was cause enough for her to go, when her best friends did not. She had everything going for her, so it's understandable that someone could be envious of that.

But I doubt they would hold back now if there was a chance of helping her.


2,081 posted on 07/08/2005 1:08:19 PM PDT by Froufrou (Froufrou Loves The Spurs!)
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To: MonaMars
Or, could be they weren't sure of the safety of the situation. Maybe the police were actually looking out for Beth's safety at that point. Or, their own safety. Or, of pissing off such a lofty fella' (achkkk...) as PvdS.

Or, they might not want to have to get between sides if there was a confrontation. At that point, I guess the police didn't really know too much of what was going on, either, and maybe just wanted a smooth shift.
2,082 posted on 07/08/2005 1:12:44 PM PDT by hummingbird ("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
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To: Palladin
about Natalee's classmates and roommates--IMHO they were all fairweather friends. Not a true friend amongst them. Especially the ones that appear on TV.

What a magnificent, eloquent post,
a Palladin winner for sure.
Natalee's fairweather friends are just toast...
none of them worthy of her.

2,083 posted on 07/08/2005 1:13:10 PM PDT by b9
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To: spectre

Dudette..I have news for you....re: my next door neighbor..she's a LOT of things..but female ain't one of them..


2,084 posted on 07/08/2005 1:13:53 PM PDT by ken5050
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To: ken5050
I know you live for the day Hillary sells her house..But not for any greater political office, we pray...ughhh.
2,085 posted on 07/08/2005 1:16:56 PM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: sodpoodle

My sister-in-law grew up on St Thomas. She knows the islands like I know Dixie.

As much as she loves the Islands and would love to go back, she will tell you...most of the local governments are corrupt and drug money is at the heart of it.

She is not talking about the everyday, workaday person. She is talking about those in power. But make no mistake, corruption is the rule, not the exception.


2,086 posted on 07/08/2005 1:47:14 PM PDT by Protect the Bill of Rights
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To: doodlelady
Showing my ignorance (and being a bit OT), doodlelady, but did you write that poem? Its neat.

I've grappled with this topic because I had a great aunt who had some kind of ability to foresee. She had a regular job, regular family, etc., but sometimes things would come to her in an inexplicable way. The subject of her abilities and from whence they came, led to a few family and in-law rifts. She didn't ask for "visions" or anything, they just came to her. At times, they disturbed her as well because sometimes the things she "saw" were unpleasant. She passed away many years ago, at a very old age, and I pray she did not suffer over what might have been a gift rather than sorcery or such. I knew her as a good, compassionate and charitable woman with a fun sense of humor who never harmed anyone and I think of her often. I am sure that she would have tried to help the Holloway/Twitty families in any way she could, even if it was just a donation or a card, etc.

On a funny note though, she once told me that my life would be filled with furs. I took that to mean I would be "rich, rich, rich!" It never occurred to me that she might have meant dogs! I have been very rich and very blessed with several canine companions and have had absolutely no attraction to wearing furs at all!

"Not that there's anything wrong with that!"
2,087 posted on 07/08/2005 1:51:33 PM PDT by hummingbird ("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
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To: Protect the Bill of Rights
Nice "rant," Protect the Bill of Rights. This part really stood out for me:

"The issue right now is finding out what happened to Natalee, not Natalee's judgement. None of us knows what happened to Natalee that night except that she is probably dead. Bad things happen to good people who do everything right."

Bears repeating.

When I think of everyone involved in this case, I try to really reflect on this:

"If you want to understand my world, walk a mile in my moccasins."

It doesn't always help, but I give it a try anyway....
2,088 posted on 07/08/2005 2:03:24 PM PDT by hummingbird ("The world needs more Steel Magnolias like Beth Holloway.")
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To: spectre

Did you happen to see Shep's show? The portion where Beth apologized? My heart breaks for her.


2,089 posted on 07/08/2005 2:05:46 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: onyx
It was said earlier that Natalee didn't always stay in her room at night. She liked so many that she would go from room to room and stay with different people.

Truly, that was reported early by one of the girls on TV and posted somewhere also. Now whether or not it can or has been verified is typical of the problem with so much of this case. But, I also do recall that it was stated. Who can read through all the thousands of posts on here or other sites anymore, however?

I do not think that it reflects on her in a bad way. Kids do that all the time on these trips. However, it does now appear, as we are reflecting on the situation, that it would have been beneficial if a bit more accuracy about one's intended place to be sleeping for the night had been stated. Which is why all kids are warned not to do "room hopping," still they all do. Perhaps now some will be inclined not to do this when they are traveling with their groups. And chaperones will be more vigilant about bed checks. Sigh :(

What a sad series of unfortunate decisions have earmarked the events leading up to Natalee's disappearance. None seemed harmful at the time, but all were part of the groundwork upon which this case took shape. Hindsight, hopefully, will make all more awares in the future.

Pray for Natalee.

2,090 posted on 07/08/2005 2:05:54 PM PDT by CitizenM ("An excuse is worse than an lie, because an excuse is a lie hidden." Pope John Paul, II)
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To: Froufrou

Both drinking and driving age is 18 there, J's only 17.

But that silly law didn't stop him from drinking, so I can't imagine he didn't take the wheel from time to time as well.


2,091 posted on 07/08/2005 2:10:30 PM PDT by texasbluebell
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To: ken5050

Hey, that is nice! Usually nobody acknowledges anything.

I guess I am hypersensitive to the kinds of speculations about Nat. If I were her Mother, it would wound me to the core. We speculate so much here, it is par for the course so this just gets to me.


2,092 posted on 07/08/2005 2:11:48 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: ken5050
Actually..there are a lot of them..one of the bizarre sights in Aruba..on the main roads..where a fatal accident occured, on the shoulder..the victim's family erects a monument..

They do that in the states, too.

2,093 posted on 07/08/2005 2:12:19 PM PDT by Rippersnapper (Personal accountability doesn't begin and stop with the other person.)
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To: Dolphy

I agree and you stated it succinctly.


2,094 posted on 07/08/2005 2:15:01 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: spectre

I think the roomies were not her friends, her friends stayed home. And maybe kids did sack out in each others rooms. And maybe they assumed she went willingly and spent the night with this guy.

Good friends, know what to expect of you. Ones who aren't so close either don't know, get glee out of it and fodder for gossip, don't care or just dont notice. They were all up very late, I read 5 am for some.

It goes to show that if no one personis responsible, then nobody is.

And I do thinnk from raising three girls that they don't tell each other what to do as much as some do. Grown women who travel together know the rules, you tell everyone where and when you go and will be back. But teenagers, fresh out of high school, they don't. And they don't act like each other's mothers. They all act "cool". Even college girls do the same.

They may be covering for their inattention, their lack of concern and their youth. But they aren't the criminals here. They are just kids.


2,095 posted on 07/08/2005 2:20:35 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: onyx
No, he didn't show it..Just said that she had apologized to the Aruban people.

She's losing it, onyx, even tho we think she is steel. She has to have closure to this. But that may not happen.

EVEN if by some small miracle, Joran were convicted, he STILL wouldn't tell Beth where Natalee is, and that's all it's come down to for Beth.

sw

2,096 posted on 07/08/2005 2:31:50 PM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: ken5050
I'm still obsessing , I guess, with what happened that mornig when the roomates awoke.

Thank you for your earlier explanation on this.

I agree with you and I have had questions regarding her roommates and the chaperones from the beginning. As a female in college, we didn't moralize with one another but we had an agreement to advise the room if one wasn't returning. That's how we all looked out for each other. I can't say we would have stayed up at night waiting for someone who didn't call or let us know...we certainly would have been in search mode come morning.

I don't know how it all transpired for this group. I know that there was officially trouble when she didn't meet the group gathering to leave. I'm not sure that the concern didn't begin earlier or if the girls got up late and were rushing around, assuming that Natalee too would be rushing in soon.

I think there could be an innocent explanation though, given that it was the last night and I have the impression that the kids were staying up and hanging out much as they do in the HS sponsored all night graduation parties that I'm familiar with. If Natalee was as organized and punctual as her mother has described maybe nobody gave it a second thought and figured she'd swoop in, grab her stuff and be ready to go.

2,097 posted on 07/08/2005 2:35:09 PM PDT by Dolphy
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To: cajungirl
I agree they are kids. But we have seen first hand how our kids can go a little wild in Aruba, and they ALL do it.

The Arubanians rarely CARD anyone, even their own. There don't seem to be any boundaries for the teens, and they know it. Can't blame the kids, but if the parents from the US learn anything from this horrible tragedy, it's not to let their kids convince them it's OK to go to a place where they can literally get away with murder.

Most of these kids were from sheltered environments, and the temptation to drink and gamble is just too strong. In fact, peer pressure dictates it. It's all hindsight, cajungirl. Sad as it is.

2,098 posted on 07/08/2005 2:41:16 PM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: Protect the Bill of Rights

The law in Aruba is protecting the lawman there who assisted JVDS and PVDS in hiding the body. This is scary, but I still think someone made a bad mistake by announcing that a body had been found. This person was admonished, I am sure. Why would someone say a body had been found if it were not so? It was retracted within hours. Quick thinking for the corrupt. They are use to it. So the corrupt lawman and PVDS disposed of Natalee. Where, who knows. I know, I know, you think I am Wacky. Could she be buried with the headless cadaver? Have the dogs checked the cemetary? Or was she taken off shore? I would not post this on thread 6. I would be shamed off. I am serious about this, Beth KNOWS other adults were involved. Who was the lawman that retired? Why?


2,099 posted on 07/08/2005 2:44:45 PM PDT by Li-Li (Induct Roger Maris into the Baseball Hall Of Fame)
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To: spectre

Oh, I saw the clip... was shown about 45 minutes into Shep's show I see at Noon here. Beth is finally showing the wear and tear on her. I'm heartbroken. She's such a strong lady and she deserves answers.


2,100 posted on 07/08/2005 2:55:50 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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