Posted on 07/04/2005 6:39:22 PM PDT by TexKat
I have yet to see evidence that Natalee went "wild in Aruba."
Absolutely not!
She is a grieving Mother dealing with an inferior law enforcement and judicial system looking for her daughter. These two lying scum brothers, if nothing else, obstructed justice. If Natalee had been alive in the first hours then they contributed to her death. And now they are free to travel wherever they want. Good luck Aruba to ever get them back!
I looked up Suriname in the CIA World Fact Book, and it looks like a major banana republic. Military junta every couple of years. My bet is that once they are there, there would be no way to get them back.
yup , dry up the tourist dollars,make the Europeans support Aruba ,BTW, I've posted a few times that I had a bad feeling they were just gonna SLOW-WALK this thing forever
LOL - I guess it depends on the definition of "wild". A young attractive woman essentially alone (her friends and chaperones weren't there when needed), hanging out in hotels and booze-filled nightclubs, then going off alone with a guy or guys she knew at best for 2 days is kinda wild in my book. And no, not deserving of death and certainly not a high-school first. But maybe some parents will learn from Beth's experience and not think it's a good idea to leave their children in a foreign land to party. Poor judgment isn't a crime but it can make one more likely.
I disagree. I think the only reason the Aruban police have done anything is because of the media presence.
All of them would never have been arrested if not for Natalee's parents and our media in the first place. The two security guards probably would have taken the fall.
Not that it's evidence, but hanging out at Carlos and Charlie's points in that direction.
I too feel strongly about this case, small as it may be in relation to all the other crazy, horrifying and dangerous things going on in this world.
And though I have a different perspective on it than many here, I think I am just as sympathatic to the Holloway family as anyone else.
I too want to see them get Natalee back, but I think (1) the American media have been infuriatingly irresponsible and are NOT helping, but are harming the investigation; and (2) that the media and the Holloway family may both be barking up the wrong tree.
To focus so obsessively on the Kalpoes and the van der Sloots, and with such vituperation, is, I think, extremely counterproductive. I am the first to say I may be wrong, but based on what I've heard and read, I do not think they murdered Natalee, nor know of her ultimate fate.
Of course I totally understand the Holloway family's anguish, but I hope they will step back for just a short time and try to take a more productive tack on this. If all the intensity of scrutiny now being placed on the Kalpoes and the van der Sloots by the media and the Holloway family were directed into other lines of inquiry, I think they'd have more hope of finding answers. Just my very humble opinion.
And with that very humble opinion, that's all I have time to post for now. Anybody who's responded to me, I'm not ignoring you, I just have to go. Thanks.
Isn't Surinam also a Dutch protectorate?
It was until 1975. Dutch is the official language & Dutch aid to Suriname is mentioned here:
While I see your point, I think the opposite is true. The rest of the world blames Americans, no matter what they do. The parents of this poor child is there just to get answers. For the most part, though not entirely, the Arubans have banned together and obfuscated the search. I think the family has been patience and tolerant beyond understanding. The rest of the world, apparently including Arubans, want the result of our hard work and capitalist economy, in this case, in the form of tourist dollars. But when we apply those same principles (hard work and persistence that helps define our national character) to get to the bottom of a problem--which in this case is probably the murder, at least the kidnapping of an American citizen--then they resent it? No, I think they are the ones who need to do the soul searching to determine the dark underworld they are trying to protect.
I am a very strict parent and wouldn't have let my daughter go there. But from what I've heard, Natalee did nothing that I would call "wild." While I don't think that she used the best judgment, that's a far cry from wild. I was a pretty tame teen-ager too, but I wasn't perfect and looking back, did things then that I would call not smart now. But not wild. And thankfully, I didn't run into a murderer or kidnapper. I just don't get it why we have to keep blaming the victim in these gut-wrenching cases.
The reasons it keeps ringing through my mind hummingbird is: one of the other girl's mother posted on a different site that her daughter had told her that they had to holler at one of the MB girls that was swimming out in the ocean with one of the local guys that night. We still do not know which MB girl it was that was swimming.
mark
I'm at the point where I think some low grade torture of Joran might get some information. At least give him only bread and water until he comes forth w/some info.
To be honest, you suggested she was calling for "vigilante justice". My post said she was not, and gave reasons why.
As to her irrelevance to the legal issues, I disagree. She and her family hit the ground running when they got to Aruba. They are the ones who turned up Joran and the Kalpoe brothers, not the Arubans. And when they did, then the Arubans let those three go and arrested some black, innocent security guards on the word of the three liars whom Beth and her family had turned up in their OWN INVESTIGATION.
And the Arubans did not do proper forensics at all on the items they should have that were belongings of those three. That is just a fact. If they did not have that capability, and if they could not move quickly, then the FBI could have done so if they had been asked and allowed. But they were not.
And now 5 weeks have passed. Unforgivable in a case like this. The family has been forced from day one to investigate this themselves. They are more than just desperate, upset people.
I think you have to take into consideration that there are somewhere around 100,000 Aruban souls, that the entire Aruban media lumped together would probably amount to just a fraction of the FoxNews organization and that a good deal of the good things that Arubans have done in the search for Holloway have gone under-reported or have been forgotten. And, if you go back & re-read Gingersnaps' posts, she wasn't castigating the entire American media, but rather the part of the media that has departed from reporting the facts and wandered into snide editorial innuendo. There is little doubt that, in the beginning, the media attention was productive. But, as the story has lagged, decidedly counterproductive elements have certainly crept into the coverage.
I don't think that it was Beth or Jug who actually contacted the FBI unless and it could be that Jug is friends with the FBI. It appears that the Twittys have some friends and/or some associates in powerful places or has friends that have friends and/or some associates in powerful places. That Sunday was Father's Day iirc.
U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details.
"The circumstances were disturbing," said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI's involvement. "I can't get into it, but it's something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off."
Anyone watching the cleavage of Julie Renfroe on Fox News down there in Aruba. :)
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