Posted on 05/07/2005 3:20:28 PM PDT by neverdem
Filed at 1:34 p.m. ET
RIGA (Reuters) - President Bush denounced Soviet Cold War rule of eastern Europe as ``one of the greatest wrongs of history'' on Saturday in a jab at Moscow two days before celebrations of the 1945 victory over Hitler.
Bush, visiting Latvia before the ceremonies in Moscow marking 60 years since the end of World War II in Europe, also held up the three Baltic states as examples of democratic reform since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
He said the end of the war brought liberty from fascism for many in Germany but meant the ``iron rule of another empire'' for the Baltic states -- Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia -- and nations from Poland to Romania.
Bush admitted the United States shared some responsibility for the Cold War division of Europe after the 1945 Yalta accord between Russia, the United States and Britain.
``Once again, when powerful governments negotiated, the freedom of small nations was somehow expendable,'' he said. ``Yet this attempt to sacrifice freedom for the sake of stability left a continent divided and unstable.
``The captivity of millions in central and eastern Europe will be remembered as one of the greatest wrongs of history,'' he said in a speech at Riga's guildhall.
The three Baltic states joined both NATO and the European Union last year.
Bush's visit to Riga has angered Russia by reviving tensions about the Soviet occupation when Moscow is focusing on celebrating the end of World War II, a conflict that cost 27 million Soviet lives.
Russian President Vladimir Putin dismissed calls by the Baltic states for an apology for Soviet rule and accused them on Saturday of trying to cover up past Nazi collaboration.
BUSH MEETS PUTIN
The differing versions of history may make for frictions when Bush meets Putin in Moscow on Sunday and Monday.
Putin insists the Red Army was a liberator, not an oppressor, of Eastern Europe.
``Our people not only defended their homeland, they liberated 11 European countries,'' Putin said on Saturday after laying a wreath at a monument to Russia's war dead.
In a recent state of the nation speech he bemoaned the demise of the Soviet Union as ``the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.'' He has also said Washington should not try to export its own brand of democracy.
Bush said Russia's leaders had made ``great progress'' in the past 15 years.
``In the long run it is the strength of Russian democracy that will determine the greatness of Russia and I believe the Russian people value their freedom and will settle for no less,'' he said.
``As we mark a victory of six decades ago, we are mindful of a paradox. For much of Germany, defeat led to freedom. For much of Eastern and Central Europe, victory brought the iron rule of another empire.''
He also held up the Baltics as examples of successful shifts to democracy, a theme he stressed for nations including Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Belarus.
``These are extraordinary times that we're living in and the three Baltic countries are capable of helping Russia and other countries in this part of the world see the benefits of what it means to live in a free society,'' Bush told a news conference.
But Bush did not back pleas by the Baltic countries for an apology from Russia. ``My hope is that we are able to move on,'' he said.
He later flew to the Netherlands where he will spend Saturday night.
The presidents of Lithuania and Estonia will boycott the May 9 ceremonies in Moscow. Georgia's president will also stay away, but Latvia's president will attend.
All three Baltic nations, whose combined population is now about 6 million, were occupied by the Soviet Union in June 1940 after a pact between Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia which divided up spheres of influence in East Europe.
In 1941, German troops occupied the Baltics and remained there until the end of the war when Soviet troops returned and ruled with an iron fist. The collapse of communism enabled the Baltic states to win their independence in 1991.
Bush also urged free elections in Belarus, which shares borders with Lithuania and Latvia, and ruled out any secret U.S deal with Moscow allowing President Alexander Lukashenko to remain in power. ``We don't make secret deals,'' he said.
Latvian President Vaira Vike-Freiberga wrote in the Washington Post on Saturday: ``Russia would gain immensely by ... expressing its genuine regret for the crimes of the Soviet regime.
``Until Russia does so ... its relations with its immediate neighbors will remain uneasy at best.''
But writing in the French daily Le Figaro, Putin dismissed calls for an apology and accused the Baltic countries of trying to justify their own government's ``discriminatory and reprehensible policy'' toward their Russian-speaking populations.
Police detained about 20 protesters from Latvia's big Russian minority after they hurled smoke bombs in a demonstration against Bush.
``Bush is a horror,'' said protest leader Beness Aija. Posters in another demonstration said: ``Stop the war in Iraq.''
But many Latvians welcome Bush. ``It's important to recognize the struggle that our fathers had against communists and the Soviet Union,'' said Ugis Senbergs, a 50-year-old architect.
Tell it to the Kosovo Serbs.
The Pope did not want America to go to war in Iraq - both times - might does make right - until Jesus comes. That is the reality - there is no morality in power.
How is this - for allying themselves with Nazi Germany the Eastern European nations got punished by God. I wont shed a tear for them and neither would the Americans who fought WW2.
So your precious Serbs got punished by God too? Why should we shed a tear for them? And The Soviets that allied themselves with the Nazi's got what they deserved too. Since the US and England allied themselves with the Soviets I guess God should punish them as well?
This is the facts as it happened. Most of Eastern European countries minus Poland and the Czech side of that republic sided as allies in the attack on the USSR. They lost the war which cost the USSR 20-30 million lives.
You contend that after the war the Soviet army should have packed up their bags and went home afterward and act like all is forgiven? In what fantasy world?
But you want to play what should have happened? How the West should have played its hand? Ok if I was FDR or Churchill I would have said to Stalin - I wish you would not stay but we will not do anything to keep you out of Romania, Bulgaria, Hungry and Slovakia abd Eastern Germany/Austria. Yugoslavia and Greece and Poland are off limits since they were allied nations.
As I have stated time and again I have no hatred of Russians. I do however have no love for either the Czarist government, or the Soviet Union. Nor do I trust Putin at all. It's my fervent wish that the Russians get it right this time, as a stable democratic Russia is in everyones interest.
As to your analysis of the Second World War it's so shallow and limited as to be laughable. For example, you seem to ignore the fact that there were plenty of volunteers from almost every country in Europe who also helped the Germans. Or that the Soviets were quite happy to carve up chunks of Finnland, Poland, occupy the Baltics and annex part of Romania in ALLIANCE with Germany.
To use it to justify Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe, resulting in untoward suffering for millions of innocent people is plain evil. Thank God the USSR is as dead as Stalin.
Is it 'anti-Russian' to say that Stalin was an evil, horrible dictator?==
No it is not. Anti-russian IMO is to say that Stalin was russian himself. He was SOVIET leader.
I was given by parcicipant of russian historical forum (www.vif2ne.ru) the statistics of russian MEMORIAL organisation about repressions of soveits toward polish citizens.
Unfortunatly all articles on russian language.
http://www.memo.ru/history/POLAcy/vved/Index.htm
The table with factual numbers.
http://www.memo.ru/history/POLAcy/vved/tabl.htm#_VPID_2
I note that data is about polish citizens and former polish citizens dwellers of annexed territories who later got soviet citizenship. About 2\3 of them ethnic poles.
Total number of repressed is about 700 thousands (poles plus polish citizens). But it is not number of killed. It is number of deported, arrested and so on.
The participant who gave me those data said that those data already publicised in Poland and polish historians
agreed with them.
So I conclude to m_68 that your numbers of deported ethnic poles - 2 mlns is "over-inflated" to say least.
All number of deported, injailed polish citizens is about "700 thousands" BUT for all period from 1939 to 1956 - the end of Stalin repressions.
Your claim that "700 thousands poles was killed" is absolutely unfounded.
I presume that you somehow substituted "700 deported and injailed former polish citizens for period from 1939 to 1956" as "700 thousands of killed ethnic poles in period of 1939-41".
I call such substitution as distortion in purpose of propaganda.
You also left out how it was SOVIET help in getting around the limitations of the Versailles treaty that helped the Germans to rebuild their military forces. Before and DURING the Nazi regime.
I looked up a few Polish sources and found wildly differing figures. My old high school texbook from 1992 says 1,5 million arrested and deported between 1939-1941. But another rather reliable source on the web (on the site of the bishopric of the Polish Army-in Polish language of course http://www.ordynariat.opoka.org.pl/artykul_wiecej.php?idartykul=38) gives numbers as low as about 350 thousand. So I presume you figures might be quite right. The highest numbers (2 mln) come from the sources in Polish goverment in London during the war and immediatly afterwards.
Another respectable source, Polish online encyclopedia http://encyklopedia.pwn.pl/16444_1.html says 300 thousand. But it's not clear whether they are only ethnic Poles or all polish citizens. Anyway, much less than 2mln (but not little too). I wouldn't say that Polish government in London gave those exaggerated figures on purpose. After katyn and after Soviets stopped recognizing legal polish authorities they had good reason to expect everything from the russians.
Another respectable source, Polish online encyclopedia http://encyklopedia.pwn.pl/16444_1.html says 300 thousand. But it's not clear whether they are only ethnic Poles or all polish citizens. ==
Think they say about only poles. All numbers of resressed on western Ukraine and Bellorussia probably is as MEMORIAL tells about 700 thousands. But those people wasn't killed. Probably part of them was executed by NKWD, it is unfortunately true:(. Most was just resettled as many small ethnicities from Caucausus and later during time of Kruschev returned back.
It is guilt of Stalin's repressions. As I many time said it was guilt of all soviets not only russians.
Accually the first russian in charge of USSR was Michael Gorbachev whose policy fred Poland and disbanded USSR. It was legal decision of Russian Federation which really disbanded USSR. SO russians destroyed USSR.
Before Gorbachev it was ukranians mostly beginning from Khruschev. Before them it was Stalin the georgian.
"Accually the first russian in charge of USSR was Michael Gorbachev whose policy fred Poland and disbanded USSR"
Incorrect. Khrushchev was Russian (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/kbank/profiles/khrushchev/) Brezhnev too, born in Ukraine but his parents were Russian (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/kbank/profiles/brezhnev/). Gorbachev freed Poland and disbanded USSR? Maybe, but inadvertently. Gorbachev gave orders to OMON to shoot protesters in Vilnius. USSR was not as much disbanded by anybody as crumbled under its own weight.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.