Posted on 03/29/2005 8:58:34 AM PST by Long Cut
We, the Witness Protection Program For Freepers, aka the Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane, have through mutual discussion and rigourous thought, determined that:
1. The discussion threads regarding Terri Schiavo (hereafter referred to as "TS") have become too full of innuendo, rumormongering, hyperbole, hysteria, namecalling, paranoia, and general poor behavior to warrant participation.
2. Said threads have degenerated into "echo chambers", wherein the same, common thoughts are continually posted again and again, and the same old disreputable, unconfirmed and/or false urban myths are propagated.
3. Anyone who joins in said theads with alternative viewpoints to the most extreme posts are routinely driven away with slander, accusations, and vile namecalling.
4. No data or evidence contrary to the "prevailing opinions" are accepted, considered, or discussed; and in fact are rejected outright in most instances.
5. That the continued calls for armed insurrection, military or paramilitary involvement, impeachements of politicians and judges, and death threats are embarassing, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to failure, and contrary to most if not all conservative thought prior to this case, as well as damaging in the extreme to FR and the conservative movement as a whole.
6. That such emotional, hyperbolic, and propaganda-driven hysteria is in fact contrary to all conservatives USED to stand for.
7. That the holding up of swastika and other Nazi imagery towards the police and the Bushes, the use of children as political props, and the disruption of the peace at the Woodside Hospice can only reflect badly on conservatives in general, and should be discouraged.
8. That the pursuit of this issue to the exclusion of all others by the GOP has damaged, perhaps beyond repair, the pursuit of other important issues as well as the reputation of the GOP, FR, and conservatism.
The WPPFF is NOT of one mind as to the case of TS or its correct outcome. In fact, wide disagreement exists within our little group. However, we are united in our wish that reason and sanity be respected in the discussion, as well as the rights of all parties involved or participating. We wish to discuss this as adults and intellectuals, as conservatives and as FRiends, not as children screaming past each other on some playground of hysteria. We wish for facts and evidence to be provided, discussed reasonably, and considered fairly.
We reject all accusations of Naziism, "death cultism", or other slander as methods of debate. We reject the practice of "spamming" multiple threads, of posting unending vanities, and the posting of propaganda and calls for violence. We reject, in fact, all unseemly and childish behavior which has come to characterize this case on FR.
We DO invite others to come and reasonably discuss the issue. We have no problem with FReepers who wish to debate in a rational and fair manner, and with due respect for their fellow FReepers. We have NO problem with those whose views are formed by religion; however we reject "preaching" or "being beaten with a Bible" as legitemite debate tactics. Not all of us are Believers, and such tactics only cheapen the source.
If a FReeper finds this an acceptable meansd to discuss this and other issues, they are welcome to join in and participate. Those who find pleasure in attacks, flame-baiting, slander, stalking, and personal atacks will be ignored, and their egos will go unfed.
We assume this thread to be a zone of sanity in an overheated atmosphere. Thus, a general amnesty is in effect. If posters conduct themselves within the guidlines above, we will be happy to discuss and debate with you. If a poster wishes to apologize for past slips of the tongue, or for possible "over-the-top" statements to another, it will be graciously accepted, and your company welcome.
Please bring a sense of humor; we feel that too many have been taking themselves too seriously lately.
Let the discussion begin!
Signed,
The WPPFF, aka The Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane.
ZZZZZZZZZooooooottttttttttttt!!! LOL! That makes your thread all "the more funnier," as you put it.
When FNC played the audio tape of the threats I wondered if it was one of those so-called 'FReepers' who post that same vitriol on this forum. The guy just went on and on and on. Sickening, indeed.
Your response: oh so it's ok when you do it, but those that disagree with you are violating the charter? i am sensing a double standard here. i have seen terri supporters referred to as TERRIBOTS on this thread that attempts to claim the moral highground. well which is it? i see several people attmepting to have a reasoned logical discusssion and they are being castigated rather than engaged. you have your thread, but you are fast losing the moral high ground.
My response: They NEVER had the moral high ground! Just as was pointed out, by referring to themselves as the "coalition of the sane", anyone in disagreement is, by logical extension, "insane". Many of them have engaged in the very thing they decry, thus exposing their hypocrisy.
their words speak for them. nothing else really needs to be said.
The mob is a natural extension of that. Many people are simply too weak willed to avoid being caught up in the moment, and many others simply give in because it feels good. It's easy to get such people to support any number of dishonorable things. Demonizing anyone who doesn't agree. Death threats. Painting swastikas on U.S. flags. Jesse Jackson. Anything is okay so long as it's 'for the cause'.
Anything but dissent. Calling people Nazis may feel good, but what you're really saying is, 'You're wrong, and we have nothing to discuss'. And we used to laugh at liberals for being intolerant.
As much as I want to blame the Joseph Farahs and Randall Terrys of the world for leading the conservative movement off the cliff of sanity, no one was forced to go. People threw themselves over like wild eyed lemmings, taking years of our hard won credibility with them. Conservative causes will suffer greatly because of our extremists' lack of self control.
Not true. We don't all agree on this case. I think that upon reciept of Congress's request for a 'de novo' review, the court should have gathered new evidence with new doctors, and left the tube in while it took place. I also agree with W, in that we should err on the side of life. Terri should have been given over to her parents, and the issue would be solved.
So, there's no kool aid back here. Just a commitment to discuss and disagree in a sane manner.
No one back here denies that there are many reasonable sides to this issue. The problem is that many people have become unreasonable in the way they argue it. Calling people Nazis. Accusing people of being in a Satanic cult of death. Calling for Jeb to be impeached, and blaming W for not having Greer arrested by the FBI.
'Coalition of the sane' doesn't mean you have a certain point of view. It just means you don't use insane methods to argue your point.
Several excellent points and I couldn't agree more.
I rarely listen to the shout shows but had Scarborough Country on last night and switched to FNC occasionally as well.
Do they not have research budgets anymore? Both shows were touting the conspiracy rumors...things we've known were false for weeks now. FOr instance, Sean was mentioning that Terri may not have had a heart attack. She had broken bones when she presented at the hospital. Etc.
Scarborough seemed most concerned that two of the five neurologists who testified said Terri wasn't PVS. No mention made that the two are alternative medicine doctors with no records to show the court they can help anyone like Terri.
When conservatives lose this much credibility, after the gains we'd made in the MSM, we're in serious trouble. Even I, a staunch conservative, will be hard pressed to listen again and give them any credibility. They lost the moderates in the country.
And regarding your comment about the mob mentality, which I agree with completely, it's interesting we came here to avoid the mob and name calling. Only to find that we're being hunted for coming here and for having the "wrong" name (or tagline).
We have become laughing stocks; When the left-wing extremists, the moonbats if you will, point at us and laugh for more foaming at the mouth than they do, then something is seriously wrong.
It puts the Left's definition of right-wing consiracy in a brighter light, IMO.
"I would not treat a dog so."
I would hope so. At least not in Florida, as you would stand at risk of being imprisoned for up to a year.
Why not just make "the jump" to the next level? Why not simply advocate for the same treatment we give most animals in this conditon? Let's just give these "useless eaters" a "shot" and get it over with?
Soooooooo civilized!!! Soooooooooo Compassionate!!! Soooooooooo What?
The 2004 Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 828
ANIMALS: CRUELTY; SALES; ANIMAL ENTERPRISE PROTECTION
828.12 Cruelty to animals.--
(1) A person who unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal, or causes the same to be done, or carries in or upon any vehicle, or otherwise, any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (SEE BELOW) or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both. (EMPHASIS ADDED)
(2) A person who intentionally commits an act to any animal which results in the cruel death, or excessive or repeated infliction of unnecessary pain or suffering, or causes the same to be done, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
(a) A person convicted of a violation of this subsection, where the finder of fact determines that the violation includes the knowing and intentional torture or torment of an animal that injures, mutilates, or kills the animal, shall be ordered to pay a minimum mandatory fine of $2,500 and undergo psychological counseling or complete an anger management treatment program.
The 2004 Florida Statutes
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 775
DEFINITIONS; GENERAL PENALTIES; REGISTRATION OF CRIMINALS
s. 775.082
(a) For a misdemeanor of the first degree, by a definite term of imprisonment not exceeding 1 year (EMPHASIS ADDED)
LINK TO SITE:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0828/titl0828.htm&StatuteYear=2004&Title=%2D%3E2004%2D%3EChapter%20828
From the minute I started posting links to court documents, mentioning specific quotes from the Schindlers under oath, I was called a Nazi and a murderer and labeled as part of the "Death Squad".
It happened to nearly all the freepers who tried to stop FR from becoming a laughing stock and the dumping ground for all sorts of conspiracy theories.
And when I tried to tell Freepers that feeding tubes get pulled from people every day of the week, I was called a liar. Nevermind that Congressmen on the floor of the House said the same thing during their emergency session a few weeks ago and that USA Today and other publications said the same thing.
We used to do research here. Darned good research. But emotion ruled the day. And all the old rules of FR were suspended. Name calling was not discouraged and we were told by the owner of the site that "facts" don't matter.
Well if that's the case, then we're no different than the Washington Post and the NYT and all the other liberal media outlets that misquote people and take statements out of context and sometimes outright lie. And that's the saddest thing for FR and something I never thought would happen here.
1. Dodge questions.
2. Act like a pompous jerk.
3. Pontificate.
4. Act like a grade A kook.
He made Alan Colmes look good by comparison. He also reinforced every negative stereotype that the moderates and left have about the 'Taliban wing' of the Republican party. He couldn't have caricatured himself better if he tried. Many FReepers shrug that off as 'Christian bashing', but it's not. Most Americans are scared of people like Randall Terry wielding real power. The more he comes out of the fringes, the faster moderate support for conservatives will vanish.
Note to self: If you add a fourth point onto a 'three point' list, make sure you go back and make the numbers jive.
I hope you read what others write, too, so you don't mischaracterize a whole thread with a wide variety of good people on it as you did in your freepmail to me yesterday.
:)
The saddest thing about this entire matter is that the bigger picture has been lost.
The pro life movement was making great strides, in no small part because technology has shown that the unborn are far more developed in their younger weeks than even doctors had ever known.
Women my age are having grandchildren and looking at the newer imaging of the unborn and realizing, it's not a blob.
But now the pro life movement, as headed by Randall Terry, has shown it's uncompromising, ugly face. The years of building a compassionate conservative base are gone and will take a long time to rebuild.
When we have Randall Terry and other pro life protestors outside that hospice screaming into bullhorns night after night, disturbing the sleep of dying patients who can hear and have cognitive abilities, people across the nation are asking why compassion for one person is more important than compassion for other dying patients.
And whether we like it or not, public perception forever ties the pro life movement with Christians and conservatives.
So now Bush can forget getting his judges confirmed, imo, and Democrats are rubbing their hands in glee.
And for people who aren't afraid of Randall Terry, we need only read his words:
"We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. ... Theocracy means God rules."
That's what he said in 1993.
What he said the other day was along the lines of "Evangelicals put the Republicans in office, and if they don't do what we say - if Terri dies - there will be hell to pay."
As the Fort Wayne (Indiana) News Sentinel reported on August 16, 1993, at an anti-abortion rally in Fort Wayne, Terry said "Our goal is a Christian nation. ... We have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism. ... Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules."
I signed on to FreeRepublic to ask questions, to learn, to generate conversation. I have learned. How to be petty, arrogant, pompous, irreverant, insulting, ungenerous, spiteful, demeaning and obnoxious.
I think I graduated cum laude. I win.
sp
As a former professional boxer I learned two things.
An empty carton needs filling.
A full carton needs emptying.
My work here is done.
sp
As much as I'd like to disagree with you, the odds of your post being pulled, and you being banned, are about 100x times that of any of the 'America is Nazi Germany' posts being pulled.
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