Posted on 03/29/2005 8:58:34 AM PST by Long Cut
We, the Witness Protection Program For Freepers, aka the Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane, have through mutual discussion and rigourous thought, determined that:
1. The discussion threads regarding Terri Schiavo (hereafter referred to as "TS") have become too full of innuendo, rumormongering, hyperbole, hysteria, namecalling, paranoia, and general poor behavior to warrant participation.
2. Said threads have degenerated into "echo chambers", wherein the same, common thoughts are continually posted again and again, and the same old disreputable, unconfirmed and/or false urban myths are propagated.
3. Anyone who joins in said theads with alternative viewpoints to the most extreme posts are routinely driven away with slander, accusations, and vile namecalling.
4. No data or evidence contrary to the "prevailing opinions" are accepted, considered, or discussed; and in fact are rejected outright in most instances.
5. That the continued calls for armed insurrection, military or paramilitary involvement, impeachements of politicians and judges, and death threats are embarassing, stupid, shortsighted, doomed to failure, and contrary to most if not all conservative thought prior to this case, as well as damaging in the extreme to FR and the conservative movement as a whole.
6. That such emotional, hyperbolic, and propaganda-driven hysteria is in fact contrary to all conservatives USED to stand for.
7. That the holding up of swastika and other Nazi imagery towards the police and the Bushes, the use of children as political props, and the disruption of the peace at the Woodside Hospice can only reflect badly on conservatives in general, and should be discouraged.
8. That the pursuit of this issue to the exclusion of all others by the GOP has damaged, perhaps beyond repair, the pursuit of other important issues as well as the reputation of the GOP, FR, and conservatism.
The WPPFF is NOT of one mind as to the case of TS or its correct outcome. In fact, wide disagreement exists within our little group. However, we are united in our wish that reason and sanity be respected in the discussion, as well as the rights of all parties involved or participating. We wish to discuss this as adults and intellectuals, as conservatives and as FRiends, not as children screaming past each other on some playground of hysteria. We wish for facts and evidence to be provided, discussed reasonably, and considered fairly.
We reject all accusations of Naziism, "death cultism", or other slander as methods of debate. We reject the practice of "spamming" multiple threads, of posting unending vanities, and the posting of propaganda and calls for violence. We reject, in fact, all unseemly and childish behavior which has come to characterize this case on FR.
We DO invite others to come and reasonably discuss the issue. We have no problem with FReepers who wish to debate in a rational and fair manner, and with due respect for their fellow FReepers. We have NO problem with those whose views are formed by religion; however we reject "preaching" or "being beaten with a Bible" as legitemite debate tactics. Not all of us are Believers, and such tactics only cheapen the source.
If a FReeper finds this an acceptable meansd to discuss this and other issues, they are welcome to join in and participate. Those who find pleasure in attacks, flame-baiting, slander, stalking, and personal atacks will be ignored, and their egos will go unfed.
We assume this thread to be a zone of sanity in an overheated atmosphere. Thus, a general amnesty is in effect. If posters conduct themselves within the guidlines above, we will be happy to discuss and debate with you. If a poster wishes to apologize for past slips of the tongue, or for possible "over-the-top" statements to another, it will be graciously accepted, and your company welcome.
Please bring a sense of humor; we feel that too many have been taking themselves too seriously lately.
Let the discussion begin!
Signed,
The WPPFF, aka The Wild Turkeys, aka the Coalition of the Sane.
As insightful, and eloquent as always CF.
However, you can close your eyes and pretnd not to see it, and stick your fingers in your ears and pretend not to hear it's terrifying growl, but in the end, once the boogeyman sinks his teeth into you, you will be forced to realise he always was real.
This is Evil, just as sure as Evil exists.
She was a girl who laughed easily at her uncle's lame jokes. A girl so innocent that she wrote to John Denver, asking him to come sing at her wedding, who went to Disney World for her honeymoon and believed that a good life meant that one day she'd be able to vacation there every year with her kids.
She was a girl who loved animals and worshiped cute television stars, paying homage to heartthrobs Starsky and Hutch by naming two gerbils after them. She daydreamed about working for a veterinarian when she grew up, or maybe just being a dog groomer.
The beautiful young woman who had already lost the ability to live the life she wanted by the time my own now-teenaged daughter was born.
Don't feed the trolls, or stoop to their tactics.
You're trolling. I made no such assertion. Furthermore you must surely see how your own questions are twisted with the aim of coming to a particular conclusion.
Now state and federal law enforcement upholding a citizen's inalienable rights are "armed goons"?
I don't support the crazed sex offender using his kid as a prop any more than anyone else does, which you surely must know - we are all disgusted with him on both sides of the debate.
yeah....I see the rhetoric isn't quick as thick these days...either that or I am ignoring it better....
For instance you may choose to use Villepinist, which of course is one that practices Villepinism, or Idiotariat, which is one who espouses Idiotarian views.
Also you may wish to enclose the url for further explanation, should you really want to get your point across. That link is here.
Couldn't help but notice your tag line.
So, where's the mud?
God must want Terri to come home. After all ... not a sparrow falls ....
ROFLMAO!
Do me a favor and let me know if anyone here wants to actually discuss the reasoning behind euthanasia... for a while there I thought that a call to arms among the rational, logical, and sane would produce at least one person interested in more than calling me and you names.
LOL. That works too.
Maybe it is Evil, maybe it's just an isolated injustice, but calling fellow FReepers "Nazis" and the like does nothing to further any rational discussion on how to prevent it from occurring again, does it?
No? Didn't think so.
You sure about that God part?
Positive?
I haven't bothered with any of the threads for nearly a week. I'm tired of being called a Nazi no matter how I explain myself.
I'm also sick of the vitriolic FRmail from the types who are too cowardly to make their wish for my kids deaths by violent means on the main forum. We have some sick pups on here of late.
And it should...
Doctors for Michael Schiavo have said that an MRI and PET are not necessary for Terri because PVS is primarily a “clinical” diagnosis, that is, one arrived at on the basis of examination of the patient, rather than by relying on tests. And the neurologists I have spoken to agree on the clinical nature of the diagnosis, while insisting that advanced tests nonetheless are a necessary part of it. But the star medical witness for Michael Schiavo, Dr. Ronald Cranford of the University of Minnesota, has repeatedly dismissed calls for MRI testing, and his opinion has prevailed.
Dr. Cranford was the principal medical witness brought in by Schiavo and Felos to support their position that Terri was PVS. Judge Greer was obviously impressed by Cranford’s résumé: Cranford travels throughout the country testifying in cases involving PVS and brain impairment. He is widely recognized by courts as an expert in these issues, and in some circles is considered “the” expert on PVS. His clinical judgment has carried the day in many cases, so it is relevant to examine the manner in which he arrived at his judgment in Terri’s case. But before that, one needs to know a little about Cranford’s background and perspective: Dr. Ronald Cranford is one of the most outspoken advocates of the “right to die” movement and of physician-assisted suicide in the U.S. today.
In published articles, including a 1997 op-ed in the Minneapolis–St. Paul Star Tribune, he has advocated the starvation of Alzheimer’s patients. He has described PVS patients as indistinguishable from other forms of animal life. He has said that PVS patients and others with brain impairment lack personhood and should have no constitutional rights. Perusing the case literature and articles surrounding the “right to die” and PVS, one will see Dr. Cranford’s name surface again and again. In almost every case, he is the one claiming PVS, and advocating the cessation of nutrition and hydration.
Dr. Cranford has been an instrumental force in redefining the determination of death. Death was once defined as the time when the heart permanently stopped beating. Through Dr. Cranford’s activism, it was changed to coincide with the cessation of brain waves. The motivation for this redefinition was so that human organs would survive the death of the patient and be available for transplant.
"The United States has thousands or tens of thousands of patients in vegetative states; nobody knows for sure exactly how many," he wrote. "But before long, this country will have several million patients with Alzheimer's dementia. The challenges and costs of maintaining vegetative state patients will pale in comparison to the problems presented by Alzheimer's disease." The answer, he suggested, was physician-assisted suicide.
Better hide granny in the fruit cellar...they are coming after her next.
By Alan Elsner
WASHINGTON, March 29 (Reuters) - The Terri Schiavo case has had the unexpected effect of uniting most Americans, whether Republicans or Democrats, around a consensus that the government should stay out of families' life and death decisions.
"You don't see many 80 percents in polls nowadays," said pollster Andrew Kohut of the Pew Research Center.
He was referring to a CBS poll last week which found that 82 percent of Americans felt Congress should have stayed out of Schiavo's case. The Florida woman's husband and parents have been battling for years over whether to remove the feeding tube keeping her alive, 15 years since since she lapsed into a persistent vegetative state after suffering a heart attack.
The poll also showed 75 percent of respondents said end-of-life issues were not the province of government. Another poll this month by Time magazine found that 70 percent of respondents thought President George W. Bush should not have intervened in the case and 65 percent said he and Congress were motivated more by politics than values and principles.
Schiavo's fate has made world headlines and dominated news coverage in the United States for three weeks.
In a country bitterly divided between Republican "red states" and Democratic "blue states," many citizens seemed angry with both parties and have made up their own minds, pollster John Zogby said.
Republicans who uphold principles of limited government, states' rights and the sanctity of the marital bond were upset their leaders had become involved. Democrats seemed upset that their leaders had mostly stayed silent on the issue.
"America has united on this under the banner of 'a pox on both your houses.' This is an intensely personal issue and people of all political stripes were repulsed at the idea of the government getting involved," Zogby said.
Past studies have shown that most people do not want doctors or hospitals to make end-of-life decisions, much less the government or courts. Nearly everyone wants such decisions controlled by themselves and their families.
At her husband's request, a feeding tube keeping Schiavo alive was removed on March 18 and she has been drifting slowly toward death since then, as her parents rushed from one court to another seeking an order to have the tube replaced.
Pressured by Christian conservatives, Congress passed a special law that sent the case to the federal courts, and Bush cut short a vacation to sign it.
NO BOOST FOR BUSH
Bush and Republican leaders apparently expected to reap a political gain. But polls have told a different story.
A Time magazine poll published last weekend found that 53 percent of evangelical Christians and 53 percent of Republicans agreed with the decision to remove Schiavo's feeding tube.
Among people who attended church at least once a week, 48 percent supported the decision and 45 percent opposed it.
"It is remarkable and surprising how the religious right has been marginalized. The public thinks that Republicans overstepped a bit on this issue, while Democrats have flown the coop so that nobody even knows what their position is," American University political scientist Allan Lichtman said.
Georgetown University political scientist Steven Wayne said the case was a warning to both parties. Republicans had to be more careful in taking simplistic positions on so-called "right to life" issues, while Democrats must lose their fear and begin to debate moral and ethical issues.
"This case should really prompt both parties to take a more nuanced view of where their supporters stand," he said.
Approval ratings for both Bush and Congress have been falling. Bush's approval was down to 45 percent in a Gallup poll this month. Only 37 percent of Americans approved of how Congress was handling its job, with 53 percent disapproving.
"People will remember this case. It will make it more difficult for the parties to take extreme positions in future," Lichtman said.
I'm trying to not call names. How do you describe torture without calling the perpetrators torturers?
I gott split anyway. Real life calls.
Feeding trolls allows crumbs to drop to the lurkers.
So, you must be the person we have all been searching for...
You would purport to tell us the intent of God?
Is it not just as possible that God is having Terri let us know just how close we are to sliding down that slippery slope?
Maybe Terri is a metaphorical sign of a Fork in the road....
We could be choosing unwisely.
I am not trolling. It's come up on the threads. Those that are not for calling in the National Guard are obviously pro pull the tube.
Silly me, I thought truth was what we were after here. I didn't realize that it is supposed to be entertainment.
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