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To: HarleyD; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; OrthodoxPresbyterian; thePilgrim; RnMomof7; ...
*chuckle* I must confess that I set up something of a trap there, and was wondering how long it would take one of you to fall into it. Since I'm not a scholar in Greek, I'll yield the floor to someone that is:
The exegetical flimsiness of using this passage [Eph. 2:8-9] in this way should be common knowledge. Apparently it is not. Chrysostom, Theodoret, Theophylact, Calvin, Calovius, Olshausen, Meyer, Chandler, Adam Clarke, Ellicot, Alford, Salmond in EGT, Eadie, Vincent, A. T. Robertson, Wuest, F. F. Bruce (“an impenitent Augustinian and Calvinist”), and even extreme Calvinist Homer Hoeksema are among the host who reject such isogesis since they recognized that the relative pronoun touto (this) is neuter and pistis (faith) is feminine and cannot serve as its antecedent. Although Calvin doesn’t explain the grammar, he is very explicit about this error:
And here we must advert to a very common error in the interpretation of this passage. Many persons restrict the word gift to faith alone. But Paul is only repeating in other words the former sentiment. His meaning is, not that faith is the gift of God, but that salvation is given to us by God, or, that we obtain it by the gift of God. (emphasis Olsen’s)
(Olsen, Gordon C., Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism: An Inductive Mediate Theology of Salvation, p. 221)
So we're back to where we were before: Faith, trusting God, is neither a work, nor is it a gift from God, but rather a response to God offering the gift of salvation.
896 posted on 01/28/2005 12:34:25 PM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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To: Buggman; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; OrthodoxPresbyterian; thePilgrim; RnMomof7

Ooooooo, a trap! I should have saw it coming.

I'm not saying your incorrect but you may wish to check your list of references. Just a quick perusal of your list I see a number of Pelegians and, in some cases, officially deemed heretics (Chrysostom). I don't think this is an objective crowd as you may feel.

But I'm off now. I'll try to look into this matter soon.


899 posted on 01/28/2005 1:04:41 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: Buggman; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; OrthodoxPresbyterian; thePilgrim; RnMomof7
Well, as you suggested I went through and read Calvin's writings on Ephesians and Romans as well as a number of articles by various authors. You’re correct and I would agree that ”Faith, trusting God, is neithernot a work, nor is it a gift from God, but rather a response to God offering the gift of salvation."

Calvin never says in his commentary (at least in Ephesians or Romans) that faith is not a gift from God as Oslen erroneously charges. At least not that I could find. Calvin simply states that faith is something man must initiate. Perhaps you may wish to find a more objective source or at least check the references.

The real question seems to center around whether it is a “gift of God”. (Everyone has been arguing this for the last 150 posts but I’m a little dense.) The question in my mind is that if it doesn’t say this in Ephesians does it say it somewhere else?

One of the more interesting verses that I came across is:

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

We know saving faith is a response to God’s word from Romans. Additionally faith is exercised by those “who have been appointed to eternal life”. No one else. This is consistent with:

Joh 6:36-37 "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

We are unable to believe until the Father gives us to our Lord Jesus. While faith is man’s exercise it cannot be implemented until we are appointed by the Father to eternal life. It is through His appointment our faith becomes active according to Acts. Since not everyone believes we know everyone is not appointed and cannot exercise faith. Nor can one believe and then not believe since under Acts they would not fit the definition of appointment. I should also mention that Acts is pretty clear that if you ARE appointed you will believe-there is no choice of whether to believe or not.

I can only conclude that, under the scriptures presented, our faith is a gift from God since our salvation is a gift from God; appointed by the Father.

923 posted on 01/29/2005 3:08:52 AM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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