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To: jkl1122
Sorry, I looked back through the posts and found your comment below:

"Cornelius received the Holy Spirit as a sign to the Jewish Christians that Gentiles could be saved as well. There are only two instances where the Holy Spirit manifests itself as it did with Cornelius, the other being when the apostles spoke at Pentecost."

You might include John the Baptist and Jeremiah to this list but, of course, they were under the "old covenant".

This is a typical Arminian construct. God works differently in the life of one but He doesn't work that way for the rest of us. I'm sorry but I reject this type of argument. People use it in all sorts of different ways just to "prove" their case. There's always an exception and that exception list grows awfully long and varies depending on who you talk to.

God works exactly the same way in everyone's life. God show no partiality. Period.

778 posted on 01/27/2005 8:14:40 AM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: HarleyD; jkl1122
God works exactly the same way in everyone's life. God show no partiality. Period.

Strangely enough, I think I'm more Calvinist in this area than you.

First, if you truly believe that, you cannot be a Calvinist, since Calvinism vehemously defends God's right to show all the partiality that He wants, even in the matter of choosing whether to allow us to love Him or not.

Secondly, I do believe that the gifts of the Spirit are still operative today. Nevertheless, 1 Cor. 12-14 is clear that God does not give all believers all the same gifts. Ergo, there's a measure of "partiality" involved there--that is, He equips us for the unique ministries He has in mind for each of us, but not everyone ministers in the same way. How many people go around parting the seas, for example?

The only Spiritual gift that God promises to give abundantly to anyone who asks is wisdom, per James 1:5. Now, I do believe that if you are fruitful with your given gifts, you will be given more (and more responsibilities to go with them), but when and how much is strictly up to God.

That being said, jkl1122 is incorrect on how many were immersed (baptized) in the Holy Spirit in Acts. There are other instances where the Holy Spirit fell upon people with power when the Apostles laid their hands on them. The Apostles came to Philip's evangelistic meetings expressly to give the Spirit's full immersion to those who had been saved, for example (remember how Simon the Sorceror wanted to buy that power), and the fact that the Gentiles were exhibiting the Spritual gifts was a major part of Paul and Barnabbas' case in Acts 15. Besides, 1 Cor. 12-14 makes no sense except in the context of continuing miracles by the Holy Spirit in the Church, including the gift of tongues.

780 posted on 01/27/2005 8:27:37 AM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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To: HarleyD

Exactly, salvation is achieved the same way for everyone under the New Covenant. I totally agree. Therefore, since the Jews on Pentecost were told to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins, then to say there is another way to be saved, is against the Scriptures. Cornelius was baptized, just like every other instance of salvation in the book of Acts. Baptism is the one common theme in all 10 conversion stories in Acts.

You are trying to make it sound like I am saying that people are saved differently, which I never have, and actually, I have always said the opposite. Salvation is always through hearing the Word of God, believing in Him, repenting of sins, confessing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and being baptized for the remission of sins.

You still have not offered proof that the Bible teaches that we are saved without the remission of sins.


782 posted on 01/27/2005 8:47:13 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: HarleyD
God works exactly the same way in everyone's life. God show no partiality. Period.

He doesn't!

Well, then why are some elect and some not, according to Calvinism?

806 posted on 01/27/2005 1:20:31 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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