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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Worthynews.com ^ | July 11th, 1875 | D. L. Moody

Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe

Jesus Christ is calling you ...

What Must I Do To Be Saved?

Dwight Lyman Moody's Last Sermon in London. Preached in Camberwell Hall, Sunday Evening, July 11th, 1875.

Suppose you do not want to hear a sermon (on this last night) so much as you want to know how to be saved. I want, if I can, to answer that question, "What must I do to be saved?" There is no question that can come before us in this world that is so important; and I think that there is not a man in this audience to-night who does not feel interested in it.

I heard a man, when he was going out the other night, saying: "I do not believe in sudden conversion. I do not believe what the preacher said to-night, that a man could come in here a sinner, and go out a Christian." Now, I want to say that I do not believe in any other conversion. I do not believe that there ever has been a conversion in the world that was not instantaneous, and I want you to mark this: not but what many cannot tell the day nor the hour when they were converted. I will admit that: they may not know the time; but that does not change the great fact that there was a time when they passed from death unto life; that there was a time when they were born [ABCOG: begotten] into the kingdom of God. There must have been a minute when their name was written in the Book of Life. There must have been a time when they were ere lost, and a time when they were saved; but we may not be conscious when the change takes place. I believe the conversion of some is like the rising of the sun, and of others like the flashing of a meteor. But both are instantaneous, really, in the sight of God. There must be a time when life begins to rise; when the dead soul begins to live.

Now, this evening I want to take up some of the Bible illustrations. In the first place, there is the ark. There was a minute when Noah was outside of the ark, and another minute when he was inside. And, bear in mind, it was the ark that saved Noah: it was not his righteousness; it was not his feelings; it was not his tears; it was not his prayers. It was the ark that saved him. If he had tried to make an ark of his feelings, or of his prayers, or of his life, he would have been swept away: he would have been drowned with the rest. But, you see, it was the ark that saved him.

When I was in Manchester, I went into the gallery one Sunday night to have a talk with a few inquirers; and while I was talking, a business man came in, and took his seat on the outskirts of the audience. I think, at first, he had come merely to criticize, and that he was a little skeptical. At last I saw he was in tears. I turned to him, and said, " My friend, what is your difficulty?" "Well," he said, "Mr. Moody, the fact is, I cannot tell." I said, "Do you believe you are a sinner?" He said, "Yes; I know that." I said, "Christ is able to save you"; and I used one illustration after another, but he did not see it. At last I thought of the ark, and I said: "Was it Noah's feelings that saved him? Was it Noah's righteousness that saved him, or was it the ark?" "I see it, now," said he; "I see it." He got up and shook hands with me, and said: "Good-night: I must go. I have to go away by the train to-night; but I was determined to be saved before I went. I see it now."

A few days after, he came and touched me on the shoulder, and said, "Do you know me? " I said, "I know your face, but do not remember where I have seen you." He said, "Do you not remember the illustration of the ark? I said, " Yes." "It has been all light ever since," said he. "I understand it now. Christ is the Ark; He saves me; and I must get inside Him." When I went down to Manchester again, and talked to the young friends there, I found he was the brightest light among them.

Let me take another illustration. There was the blood in Goshen. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Now He does not say, "When I see Moses' feelings, or the feelings of the people, I will pass over you"; or, "When I see you praying and weeping, I will pass over you"; but, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." It was the blood that saved them, not their righteousness. And a little child by that blood in Goshen was just as safe as Moses or Aaron or Joshua or Caleb. It was the blood that saved them. Look! there is the Jew taking the hyssop. He dips it in the blood, and strikes it on the doorpost. One minute it is not there: the next it is there. The moment the blood is there they are saved. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Some people say, "If I were only as good as that minister I should feel so safe" or, "If I were only as good as that mother in Israel who has been praying fifty years for the poor and unfortunate, should I not feel very safe? " My friends, if you are behind the blood, you are as safe as any man or woman who has been praying for fifty years. It is not their righteousness and good works that are going to save them. They never saved any one. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." [ABCOG: Moody understands "pass over" to mean "bypass". It can also mean "hover over to protect"] And when I am sheltered behind the blood, then I am saved; and if I am not sheltered behind the blood, I am not saved. That was instantaneous, was not it? God says, "When I see the blood, it shall be a token, and I will not enter." Death came down and passed over Egypt; and where the blood was on the doorpost he passed by; but where the blood could not be found, in he went and took the victim away. The great palaces could not keep out death; wealth and position could not keep out death. He went and took the Crown Prince of Egypt; he took the richest and the poorest, the highest and the lowest. Death makes no distinction, except a man is behind the blood.

My friends, be wise to-night, and get behind the blood. The blood has been shed. The blood is on the mercy-seat; and while it is there you can be saved. God is imputing to His Son your trespasses and sins. He says, "I will look at the blood on the mercy-seat." Press in, my friends; make haste and get in tonight; for the Master of the house will rise up by-and-by and shut to the door, and then there will be no hope.

Take another case. When Israel went over Jordan, God told Joshua to have six cities of refuge; three on each side of Jordan. They were to be built on a hill, where they could be seen at a great distance, and the gates were to be kept open day and night. All obstacles were to be kept out of the way, the highway was to be kept in repair, the bridges and everything in good condition, so that nothing should hinder a poor man flying to the city of refuge. If a man killed another in those days, it was considered a great disgrace if the nearest relative did not take vengeance. "An eye for an eye, and a booth for a tooth." If a man killed another, the next kinsman was bound to put him to death. But if he could escape to a city of refuge he was tried, and if it was found he had not intentionally killed the man, he might live.

Now for my illustration. Suppose I have killed a man. I am out away in the woods working, and my axe slips out of my hand, and kills the man working with me. I know that his kinsman, his brother, is not far away. The news will soon reach him that I have killed his brother. What shall I do? I start for the city of refuge, over there away on the hill, ten miles off. I run - and we are told that in those days there used to be signposts with the word " Refuge," written in great red letters, so that a man might read as he ran; he need not stop. I have been told that there was a finger pointing towards the city, and a man who could not read might see the hand. A man does not have to learn to read before he can be saved. I see that hand; it is pointing to the city of refuge. The gate is wide open, but it is ten miles away. I leap over the highway. I do not look behind, to the right hand or to the left. I do not listen to this man or to that man, but, like John Bunyan, I put my fingers in my ears. The avenger has drawn his sword, and is on my track. I leap over into the highway; and, pretty soon, I can hear him behind me, Away I go, over that bridge, across that stream, up that mountain, along that valley, - but I can hear him coming nearer and nearer. There is the watchman; I can see him on the wall of the city. He gives notice to the inhabitants that a refugee is coming. I see the citizens on the wall of the city watching, and when I get near I hear them calling, "Run, run! Escape, escape! He is very near you! Run! escape!" I press on; leap through the gate of the city; and at last I am safe. One minute I am outside, and the next I am inside. One minute I am exposed to that sword; it may come down upon me at any minute: the next minute I am safe. Do I feel any difference? I feel I am behind the walls: that is the difference. It is a fact. There I am. The avenger can come up to the gates of the city, but he cannot come in. He cannot lay his sword upon me. The law of the land shields me now. I am under the protection of that city; I have saved my life; but I had no time for lingering.

A great many of you are trying to get into the city of refuge, and there are enemies trying to stop you, But do not listen to them. Your friends tell you to escape. Make haste! Delay not for a single moment!

In our country, before the war, when we had slavery, the slaves used to keep their eye on the north star. If a slave escaped to the Northern States, his old master could come and take him back into slavery. But there was another flag on American soil, and if they could only get under that flag they were for ever free. It is called the Union Jack. If they could only get as far north as Canada they were free; therefore they kept looking towards the north star. But they knew if they only got into the Northern States, there might be some one ready to take them back. So it is with every poor sinner who wants to come to Christ. Many men do all they can to hinder him; others will cheer him on. Let us help every man towards the north star. A man has escaped: perhaps he swims across the Mississippi river, or crosses the Ohio river in a little canoe. The master hears of it, and he takes his hounds and sets them on his track, and begins to hunt him down. The slave hears the hounds; and he knows that his master is coming to take him back to slavery. The line is a mile or two away. He escapes as fast as he can. He runs with all his might for the frontier, over hedges and ditches and rivers; away he goes for Canada. By-and-by he comes in sight of Canada. He can see that flag floating in front of him; and he knows that if he can only cross the line before his master and the hounds overtake him, he will be free for ever.

How the poor black man runs! leaping and bounding along; and at last, with one bound, he goes over the line. He is free! One minute he is a slave; the next minute he is a free man, under the flag of Queen Victoria, the British flag! (cheers [ABCOG: by British crowd]) - don't cheer, my friends, but come to Christ - and your laws say that no man under that flag shall be a slave. One minute he is a slave; the next minute he is a free man. One minute it is possible for his old master to drag him back; the next minute he shouts, "Free!"

If Christ tells us that we are free, we are free. My friends, Christ is calling to-night. Get out of the devil's territory as quick as you can. No slave in the Southern States had so hard a master as yours, nor so mean a master as Satan. Take my advice tonight, and escape for the liberty of your soul.

I can imagine some of you saying "I do not see how a man is really going to be converted all at once." Let me give you another illustration. Look down there. There are two soldiers. Now, if you bring those soldiers up to this platform, and ask them how they became soldiers, they will tell you this - that one moment they were citizens, and the next minute soldiers. What was it that made them soldiers? It was when they took the Queen's shilling. The moment they received that shilling they ceased to be citizens, and they became soldiers. Before they received that shilling they could go where they pleased; the next minute they came under the government and under the regulations of the army, and they must go where Queen Victoria sends them. They did not have to wait for the uniform. The minute they received the shilling they became soldiers. What made them soldiers? Receiving the shilling. What makes a man a Christian? Receiving Christ. "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not: but as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God."

Now, the gift of God is eternal life. Who will have the gift to-night? When I was down in Manchester I asked that question, and a man shouted in the meeting, "I will! " Who will have it now? Is not there some man here in London, as there was in Manchester, who will say that he will have the gift? Is it not a wonder to have to plead with so many to take the gift? "The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life." Who will have the gift now? (Many responses of "I will"; "I will.")

I can imagine one man down there who says "How about repentance? How about getting into the ark or the city of refuge before repentance?" My friend, let me ask you what is repentance? It is right-about-face! I think these soldiers understand that expression. Some one has said that every one is born with his back to God, and that conversion turns him right round. If you want to be converted, and want to repent, I will tell you what you should do. Just get out of Satan's service, and get into the Lord's. Leave your old friends, and unite yourself with God's people.

In a few days, if nothing happens, I expect to go to Liverpool. If, when I am in the train, my friend Mr. Shipton says, "Moody, you are going in the wrong train, - that train is going to Edinburgh" - I should say, "Mr. Shipton, you have made a great mistake; somebody told me the train was going to Liverpool. You are wrong, Mr. Shipton; I am sure you are wrong." Then Mr. Shipton would say, "Moody, I have lived here forty years, and I know all about the trains. He must have been very ignorant or very vicious who told you that train goes to Liverpool." Mr. Shipton at last convinces me, and I get out of that train and get into the one going to Liverpool.

Repentance is getting out of one train and getting into the other. You are in the wrong train; you are in the broad path that takes you down to the pit of hell. Get out of it to-night. Right-about-face! Who will turn his feet towards God? "Turn ye, for why will ye die?" In the Old Testament the word is "turn." In the New Testament the word is "repent." "Turn ye, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" God does not want any man in this audience to perish, but He wants all to be saved. You can be saved now if you will.

There is another illustration I wish I had time to dwell upon and that is about looking. There is that serpent in the wilderness. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man also be lifted up, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Look here! Just give me your attention for a few minutes. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." How long does it take a man to believe? Or, if you will, how long does it take a man to look? Some people say they believe in educating people to be Christians. How long do you educate children to look? You hear the mother say, "Look," and the little child looks. It does not take a child three months to learn to look. Look and live! You need not go to college to learn how to look. There is not a child here but knows how to look. Christ says, "Look unto me; for I am [ABCOG: the way to] God, and there is none else."

There is the brazen serpent on the pole. God says to the children of Israel, who are dying of the bite of the fiery serpents - "Look, and live!"

Now, there is nothing in looking at a piece of brass which can cure the bite of a serpent. It is God who cures it, and the looking is the condition. It is obedience; and that is what God will have.

One moment the poor sufferer is dying; the next there comes a thrill of life through his veins, and he lives: he is well. My friends, look to Christ, and not to yourselves. That is what is the matter with a great many sinners; instead of looking to Christ, they are looking at the bite.

It is not looking to the wound; it is looking to the remedy. Christ is the remedy of sin. What you want is to look from the wound to the remedy - to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. Who will look tonight, and live? Turn your eye to Calvary; believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.


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KEYWORDS: 230; dwightlmoody; moody; salvation; transcript
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To: Quix

Point well taken. But my belief is God knows we are weak and human and although He doesn't like our personal habits, He tolerates it because we are human. He knows we will have a perfect body one day and won't need food or cigarettes. He is more interested in the condition of our soul. Just like when David and others had so many wives, God meant for a man to have one wife but people were weak so when He gave Moses the laws he included laws about wives and concubines, even though He didn't approve.


541 posted on 01/25/2005 4:35:59 AM PST by beckysueb (God bless America and President Bush.)
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To: fortheDeclaration
”It would probably be more accurate to say that Christ died for all men but Atonement is only applied to those who receive it.”

That’s one way to look at it. However it begs the question didn’t God know how many would receive salvation? Limited atonement says God knew how many.

HD-Man is WICKED from day one. FTD-“There may Arminians who believe this, but neither Arminius nor Wesley taught it. Both held that man was totally depraved and needed God's grace to be saved. The difference is that God's grace is given to all men and some reject it and some do not.”

The Bible does not support this. There are multiple examples throughout the Old Testament where God’s grace was selectively given. There is no greater example of selective grace of God in the Bible than the Passover.

Men will NEVER accept God’s grace even if it is freely offered or God “enlightens” a person. It is not in our nature which is corrupt. It’s like having an absolute passion for chocolate ice cream. If given the choice between vanilla and chocolate, a person will always choose chocolate unless the taste buds are changed to have a passion for vanilla. Some may make an “intellectual” choice for vanilla and pretend to like it but they eventually go back to their real passion-chocolate.

Such is the depravity of man according to scripture. Given a choice man will always make the wrong choice unless God steps in to change his nature to make the right choice. This is what being "born again" is all about. Once you are born again, you will freely accept God and want to drop what you are doing and follow Christ. So says the scriptures. This is how depraved man is and how great God is to want to change man.

”Well, that is very true, but it is not 'perseverance of the saints' but the perseverance of God. “

That is a much more accurate title and reflects the belief. (Seems to me I read where someone suggested the same name.) If it was up to me I would have named some of the TULIP petals differently but we probably would have ended up with TQZYW. I can’t help how they named things.

542 posted on 01/25/2005 5:41:09 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: fortheDeclaration

Christ's blood has washed away my sins. I totally am in agreement with that. However, acceptance of God's grace is not unconditional. There is nothing in the Bible that teaches this. If it was unconditional, then everyone in the world, as well as Satan and his dominion, would be saved. However, this is absolutely not true. I have never said, and never will, that the water used in baptism has any power to save. That power belongs to Jesus's blood. All I am saying is that the Bible teaches that to "put on Christ", we must be baptized. (Galatians 3:27) This does not negate God's grace in any way. Hearing the Word of God, believing it, repenting of sins, confessing Jesus Christ as God's son, and baptism are all part of the Gospel message.

Take a look at Galations 3:26-27.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

I have noticed that a lot of people like to use verse 26, but they don't even talk about verse 27. Being "sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" does not mean faith alone. If you have true faith, you will do as the Lord has commanded. One of those commandments is baptism.

As for Christ returning to setup a Davidic Kingdom, that is not taught in Scripture. The Kingdom of God is here, it is the church.

I do not intend to keep going in circles on these points. I have tried my best to keep personal feelings out of my posts and to stick with Scripture. I may not have alaways done that, but that has been my goal. However, it is obvious that you look at Scripture with the "rose colored" glasses. Your vision is tinted with ideas of premillenialism and other denominational doctrines. I would suggest you read this wonderful article looking at premillenialism: http://www.christiancourier.com/feature/february2001.htm

God Bless.


543 posted on 01/25/2005 6:10:20 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: RnMomof7

Your argument using Mark 16:16 is a very old and weak argument in my opinion. In the Greek, the words for "believeth" and "is baptized" are "aorist tense participles." The tense of these participles are actions that happen prior to the leading verb of the sentence, which is "shall be saved". In other words, both are necessary. Also notice that belief is placed before baptism in this verse. The order is also important. Belief always occurs before baptism in the New Testament.

The use of "believeth not" in the last part of the verse is enough to get the point across. Without belief, which is shown to be required before baptism, salvation can not take place. There is no need to list baptism in the last part of the verse as it would have been redundant.


544 posted on 01/25/2005 6:26:55 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: fortheDeclaration; RnMomof7; xzins; P-Marlowe

***Salvation is not a process, it is an event....***

What makes you think that sister RnMomof7 is not talking about an event? Did it ever occur to you that the Salvation order is a logical order and that when we, who don't believe that God has done all he can do and the rest is up to man, speak about it that is what kind of order we mean.

Of course, seeing that most of your neener pals claim to be a kind of Calvinist and Mr. Marlowe actually agrees with our Westminster confession, you could ask them about it. I'm sure they can all explain it to you.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


545 posted on 01/25/2005 6:45:45 AM PST by thePilgrim
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To: GLENNS
That's exactly the problem, isn't it?

Um, I'm not sure there is a problem.

You want to live by sight and not by hope.

Where did you get that? You said my understanding of TULIP was incomplete. I asked you to tell me how, and you gave me a fine, though unnecessary, mini-sermon on faith and God's sovreignty, none of which I would dispute.

Not everyone who questions your doctrine is confused and disturbed, or caught up in some zeitgeist, or interested in fast-food theology. Why would I lurk and post on these forums if I just wanted touchy-feely Christianity?

So it would seem to me that my understanding of TULIP is fairly complete. The saints are unconditionally elected and will persevere since they cannot be led astray. Those not unconditionally elected are led astray to eternal damnation, though we cannot say exactly how they were led astray since they were never among the elect. Yet we have faith and the Scriptures attest that a righteous, merciful, and just God uses it all for His glory. Is that a fair, albeit concise, assessment?

546 posted on 01/25/2005 7:04:48 AM PST by opus86
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To: RnMomof7

For the picayunish everything is wrong.


547 posted on 01/25/2005 7:18:28 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: nobdysfool

Apparently, you'd better read up on it.


548 posted on 01/25/2005 7:20:53 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: thePilgrim; P-Marlowe

Only dealing with facts, Pilg, ... looking for a place where he quit, was tossed, or renounced.

There are no such facts.


549 posted on 01/25/2005 7:22:28 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Corin Stormhands; nobdysfool
Posting a link to another thread is "thread jumping?"

No. It isn't. Never has been...never will be. Simply more foolishness or indication of ignorance of the system.

550 posted on 01/25/2005 7:25:03 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: fortheDeclaration; connectthedots

Arminius' had great respect for the Institutes.

His studies mush have revealed a broader scope to Calvin's theology than the dortists are seeing.

As many quotes as I've seen from Calvin on these pages over the years ...quotes that appear contradictory to dortist positions...I'd be inclined to investigate my sense that Calvin's broader theology was not misunderstood by Arminius.

And you are certainly correct. Arminius is right that "reformed" is far broader than dortists might try to suggest.


551 posted on 01/25/2005 7:31:56 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins; fortheDeclaration

I'm sorry, perhaps you didn't understand what was requested. I couldn't care less that you think you and all your spiritual progenetors are Calvinists. I'm just looking for an explaination, seeing that you claim to be a Calvinist, for the Reformed salvation order. Your buddy fortheDeclaration doesn't understand the Reformed position. This is elementary for a Calvinist so I thought you would like to explain it and show us all just how much knowledge you have.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


552 posted on 01/25/2005 8:03:37 AM PST by thePilgrim
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To: thePilgrim

Pilg, I responded to your post that referenced a bonfire. There was nothing in it about any "ordo."

You're relatively new here, and perhaps you know this, but if you look at the number in the middle of the line under the poster's name, you'll see the number of the post that's being responded to. It is also a link that will take you back to that post.

X


553 posted on 01/25/2005 8:07:57 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: jkl1122
The use of "believeth not" in the last part of the verse is enough to get the point across. Without belief, which is shown to be required before baptism, salvation can not take place. There is no need to list baptism in the last part of the verse as it would have been redundant.

Really?

If you are Catholic , I will ask if the infants have properly "believed "before they are baptized?

If you are COC if a man that came foreword in faith and repented and believed drops dead before his baptism ...does he burn in hell?

Here is the gospel that Paul preached

1Cr 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Not one word about Baptism in the gospel that saves .

Read the words of Paul

1Cr 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

1Cr 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

1Cr 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

554 posted on 01/25/2005 8:25:28 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: thePilgrim
Of course, seeing that most of your neener pals claim to be a kind of Calvinist and Mr. Marlowe actually agrees with our Westminster confession, you could ask them about it. I'm sure they can all explain it to you.

That sounds like a fine idea

555 posted on 01/25/2005 8:27:14 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

First of all, the practice of infant baptism has no foundation in Scripture. Second, using "hard cases" such as a person dying right before baptism is grasping at straws. God is just and He has the final say on who is saved. However, we on this earth only have the Bible record to show us what He commands of us in order to receive salvation.

Regarding 1 Corinthians, Paul is speaking to members of the church at Corinth. These people are saved. In the first few verses you quoted, no, he does not specifically talk about baptism. But he does refer to the Gospel that he did preach to them. In Acts 18, we see Paul preaching to those in Corinth. In verse 8, it says "and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized". If baptism isn't a part of the Gospel, then how did they know to be baptized?

As you noted, he does talk about baptism later in the same chapter. However, Paul is not saying baptism is not a part of the Gospel. You even included verse 13 which shows he is talking about those in Corinth who were claiming the name of the one who baptized them, not the name of Christ. His problem was not with baptism, but with claiming the name of the baptizer.


556 posted on 01/25/2005 8:40:24 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: fortheDeclaration
That would make no sense.

If you read scripture it makes perfect sense

When you are born you are born dead in Adam.
That is the basis of why were are spiritually dead, we are in Adam. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive (1Cor.15:22) If you are regenerated you are now no longer spiritually dead and but, (according to Calvinism) not yet in Christ (which is where spiritual life is) You are in a spiritual limbo, neither in Adam (dead/lost) nor in Christ (saved/alive) You must be either one at any one moment, either spiritually dead or alive. Salvation is not a process, it is an event, when you move from spiritual death (1st Adam) to spiritual life (2nd Adam) and that is through faith which precedes regeneration.

I would just like you to explain to me how that spiritually dead man in Adam can make a spiritual "choice" to change location? What came first for Lazarus, His decision to change locations or regeneration?

You have a dead man making a decision to be alive and then to move his location from Adam to Christ . All the while making that move so that he can be alive when he gets there.

So when a pseudo wanna be Calvinist says "dead in Adam" he does not REALLY mean" dead in Adam" He does not really believe men died in Adam and need a new life in Christ.. He believes that men were only slightly injured in Adam and they can limp forth from the grave in Adam in their own power

No Grace or mercy there folks... just keep moving along

557 posted on 01/25/2005 8:44:27 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7; fortheDeclaration; xzins; P-Marlowe
He believes that men were only slightly injured in Adam and they can limp forth from the grave in Adam in their own power

Well that's certainly cute RN. But you of all people certainly know that's not the Wesleyan-Arminian view. Nor, as far as I am aware, is it the view of anyone posting on these threads.

But, you knew that.

558 posted on 01/25/2005 8:49:47 AM PST by Corin Stormhands (All we have to decide is what to do with the crap that we are given...)
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To: fortheDeclaration
It would probably be more accurate to say that Christ died for all men but Atonement is only applied to those who receive it.
Thus, all men are savable, but the Atonement is only effective if accepted.
If one doesn't get under the Blood, then one stands on ones own works (Isa.64:6)

One might say that , but unfortunately that is not what the word of God says

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

559 posted on 01/25/2005 8:50:05 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: jkl1122
However, Paul is not saying baptism is not a part of the Gospel.

Tough to builds a doctrine on the words that are not there huh?

560 posted on 01/25/2005 8:51:26 AM PST by RnMomof7
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