Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe
I share your desire to see some saved, but the Ark represented salvation.
Only those who were in it were save since they believed God.
Enoch (a type of the church) was 'raptured' out before the flood.
All those who went through the flood had time to repent but refused.
It is more likely that they had become so hardened that they were unable to repent even with the water coming over them.
You are trying to place items of the New Covenant on those who were under the Old Covenant. That is not Biblical. The Old Testament patriarchs did not require baptism because they lived under a Law which required many sacrifices. The final sacrifice was made when Christ died and rose again.
Below is from the Scofield Reference Bible,
gospel
Gospel. This great theme may be summarized as follows:
I. In itself the word Gospel means good news.
II. Four forms of the Gospel are to be distinguished"
(1) The Gospel of the kingdom. This is the good news that God purposes to set up on the earth, in fulfilment of the Davidic Covenant 2 Samuel 7:16 a kingdom, political, spiritual, Israelitish, universal, over which God's Son, David's heir, shall be King, and which shall be, for one thousand years, the manifestation of the righteousness of God in human affairs. (See Scofield "Matthew 3:2") .
Two preachings of this Gospel are mentioned, one past, beginning with the ministry of John the Baptist, continued by our Lord and His disciples, and ending with the Jewis rejection of the King. The other is yet future Matthew 24:14 during the great tribulation, and immediately preceding the coming of the King in glory.
(2) The Gospel of the grace of God. This is the good news that Jesus Christ, the rejected King, has died on the cross for the sins of the world, that He was raised from the dead for our justification, and that by Him all that believe are justified from all things. This form of the Gospel is described in many ways. It is the Gospel "of God" Romans 1:1 because it originates in His love; "of Christ" 2 Corinthians 10:14 because it flows from His sacrifice, and because He is the alone Object of Gospel faith; of the "grace of God" Acts 20:24 because it saves those whom the law curses; of "the glory" ; 1 Timothy 1:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4 because it concerns Him who is in the glory, and who is bringing the many sons to glory Hebrews 2:10 of "our salvation" Ephesians 1:13 because it is the "power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16 of "the uncircumcision" Galatians 2:7 because it saves wholly apart from forms and ordinances of "peace" Ephesians 6:15 because through Christ it makes peace between the sinner and God, and imparts inward peace.
(3) The everlasting Gospel Revelation 14:6. This is to be preached to the earth-dwellers at the very end of the great tribulation and immediately preceding the judgment of the nations Matthew 15:31. It is neither the Gospel of the kingdom, nor of grace. Though its burden is judgment, not salvation, it is good news to Israel and to those who, during the tribulation, have been saved ; Revelation 7:9-14; Luke 21:28; Psalms 96:11-13; Isaiah 35:4-10.
(4) That which Paul calls, "my Gospel" Romans 2:16. This is the Gospel of the grace of God in its fullest development, but includes the revelation of the result of that Gospel in the outcalling of the church, her relationships, position, privileges, and responsibility. It is the distinctive truth of Ephesians and Colossians, but interpenetrates all of Paul's writings.
III. There is "another Gospel" Galatians 1:6; 2 Corinthians 11:4 "which is not another," but a perversion of the Gospel of the grace of God, against which we are warned. It has many seductive forms, but the test is one--it invariably denies the sufficiency of grace alone to save, keep, and perfect, and mingles with grace some kind of human merit. In Galatia it was law, in Colosse fanaticism Colossians 2:18, etc. In any form its teachers lie under the awful anathema of God.
I hope that you are not depending on anything (including water baptism) but the shed blood of Christ for your salvation.
Count me clinging, by the grace of God alone.
Amen!
I'm understanding that John the Baptist was not included in the era of the Kingdom of God. He was the voice of one crying in the wilderness, "PREPARE the way of the Lord..." That way was not part of John's mission. In fact, the baptism of John was INEFFECTIVE for the Kingdom of God and a Christian era baptism was required of disciples of John in the book of Acts.
Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence , and the violent take it by force.
It was a "baptism of REPENTANCE for the remission of sins." The baptism was a sign of the preceding repentance which was for the remission of sins. That is why obedience to this instruction gives an indication of true belief EXCEPT in cases of extremity such as the thief on the cross.
Quoting Scofield on this forum is the equivalent of saying that you liked "A Purpose Driven Life" and thought it was a fabulous devotional.
Watch for falling brimstones.
As you can tell from my tagline, I am a retired army chaplain. What is offered as a hypothetical is discussed among military chaplains as a reality. Battlefield chaplains have with wartime regularity been confronted with exactly this situation. For baptists it pushes their understanding of baptism by immersion; for Church of Christ (and others) it pushes their understanding of baptismal regeneration. Baptists will tell of baptizing with a canteen, and others will tell of no baptism at all because the situation and enemy fire is simply too great. Sacramental Christians will agonize over troops doomed within a contaminated area, because they cannot be present to administer that sacrament without consigning themselves to death.
Across the spectrum of chaplains, I never ran across one from any denominational group that believed God would be anything except understanding of those confronted by in extremis circumstances.
I don't think you mean that. You mean "regeneration precedes believing" don't you?
To have faith IS to be believing. Faith and Belief are synonymns in my view, therefore, one cannot precede the other.
Not following through with baptism when it is a clear instruction is disobedience to God, and is probably a sign that the FAITH wasn't real in the first place.
After reading this and other events that transpired today, I need all the prayer I can get. :(
I agree about baptism. There are some who are not afforded the luxury of a baptism tank in many of the military chapel.
I remember becoming convicted that I needed to be baptized in a remote part of Turkey. I went over to the senior elder about 10:00pm late one February night and told him I wanted to be baptized by him right now. It was about 30 degrees outside with a snow storm and the only place we had available was the Sea of MarMar. He convinced me to wait a couple of days until we could gather the believers around. A freak southern breeze came up providing an unusual warm day (around 70) and I was baptized.
It was a wonderful experience but we didn't have a place to be baptized on base. If I was in the dessert I guess the only thing I could have done was be sprinkled.
I would agree with everything you've said but what was it that made Noah righteous? God gave the instructions and Noah obeyed. God also gave him all the skills and fortitude to help him complete his task. Likewise God gives us our instructions and skills. It is He who bears are fruit.
I think you're right. I've been predestined to develop a sinus infection today to God's glory. I think I'll retire now before my mind shuts off totally. (And no wise cracks.) :O)
LOL
If you believe the Calvinists on these threads, that appears to be the method God uses. He just picks out people on the monitor and presses Ctrl "S" and presto they are saved.
For the reprobates I suppose he sees them on the monitor and presses "Del" and off they go to outer darkness.
Noah has apparently done everything God has asked of him thus far. God has said he is now righteous. I find it interesting upon further inspection that God orders him into the ark as a final "command" and then states that he is righteous.
Such are the terrible heartbreaks of war.
But as Christians we need to remind ourselves and each other that God is always and everywhere at the side of those who love Him. The River Jordan or Harley's desert sprinkles are all the same to God -- outward human remembrances of His promise that help us feel closer to Him, not the other way around. We have all the assurance we need in His word.
"For the LORD will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the LORD to make you his people." -- 1 Samuel 12:22.
"Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me. Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple. The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God. When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple. They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy. But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD." -- Jonah 2:1-9.
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." -- Romans 8:35-39.
In this case, a lot more perceptive than you. If it is God who promises to do x, then for man to do x means that x is not anything supernatural, otherwise only God could do it. If God promises to do x if man does y, then if man does x, there is no need for God to do y. Man has done it all!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.