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Endless complaints. |
Posted on 12/31/2004 2:21:30 PM PST by Caipirabob
What's wrong about this photo? Or if you're a true-born Southerner, what's right?
While scanning through some of the up and coming movies in 2005, I ran across this intriguing title; "CSA: Confederate States of America (2005)". It's an "alternate universe" take on what would the country be like had the South won the civil war.
Stars with bars:
Suffice to say anything from Hollywood on this topic is sure to to bring about all sorts of controversial ideas and discussions. I was surprised that they are approaching such subject matter, and I'm more than a little interested.
Some things are better left dead in the past:
For myself, I was more than pleased with the homage paid to General "Stonewall" Jackson in Turner's "Gods and Generals". Like him, I should have like to believe that the South would have been compelled to end slavery out of Christian dignity rather than continue to enslave their brothers of the freedom that belong equally to all men. Obviously it didn't happen that way.
Would I fight for a South that believed in Slavery today? I have to ask first, would I know any better back then? I don't know. I honestly don't know. My pride for my South and my heritage would have most likely doomed me as it did so many others. I won't skirt the issue, in all likelyhood, slavery may have been an afterthought. Had they been the staple of what I considered property, I possibly would have already been past the point of moral struggle on the point and preparing to kill Northern invaders.
Compelling story or KKK wet dream?:
So what do I feel about this? The photo above nearly brings me to tears, as I highly respect Abraham Lincoln. I don't care if they kick me out of the South. Imagine if GW was in prayer over what to do about a seperatist leftist California. That's how I imagine Lincoln. A great man. I wonder sometimes what my family would have been like today. How many more of us would there be? Would we have held onto the property and prosperity that sustained them before the war? Would I have double the amount of family in the area? How many would I have had to cook for last week for Christmas? Would I have needed to make more "Pate De Fois Gras"?
Well, dunno about that either. Depending on what the previous for this movie are like, I may or may not see it. If they portray it as the United Confederacy of the KKK I won't be attending.
This generation of our clan speaks some 5 languages in addition to English, those being of recent immigrants to this nation. All of them are good Americans. I believe the south would have succombed to the same forces that affected the North. Immigration, war, economics and other huma forces that have changed the map of the world since history began.
Whatever. At least in this alternate universe, it's safe for me to believe that we would have grown to be the benevolent and humane South that I know it is in my heart. I can believe that slavery would have died shortly before or after that lost victory. I can believe that Southern gentlemen would have served the world as the model for behavior. In my alternate universe, it's ok that Spock has a beard. It's my alternate universe after all, it can be what I want.
At any rate, I lived up North for many years. Wonderful people and difficult people. I will always sing their praises as a land full of beautiful Italian girls, maple syrup and Birch beer. My uncle ribbed us once before we left on how we were going up North to live "with all the Yankees". Afterwards I always refered to him as royalty. He is, really. He's "King of the Rednecks". I suppose I'm his court jester.
So what do you think of this movie?
offhand, i can't think of ANY major US university (not even my beloved AUBURN!!!) that would hire/promote/tenure ANY PRO-dixie scholar.
free dixie,sw
See "Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunters 1939-1942" and "Hitler's U-Boat War: The Hunted 1942-1945" both by Clay Blair. Appendix 2 in both books gives the fate of German U-Boats lost during the period the book covers. No mention of a U-Boat being captured and towed to Galveston.
Oh, and the idea that a state can declare war is both nonsensical and unconstitutional.
the RI & TX letters of marque WERE ISSUED & MD,RI & TX DID separately declare war on the Axis, thus the the state legislatures & governors of those states either didn't know (or more likely) /didn't care what anyone/you think about their acts as FREE citizens/states.
free dixie,sw
Manure.
The picket patrol (AKA "Hooligan Navy") during WW2 used sailing yachts set up with sonar and radar to search for U- Boats. Since they were under sail, the German sonar couldn't pick their noise. While they were armed, there are very few accounts of them actually engaging in action, and none are credited with sinking, much less capturing, a German U-Boat. Usually what happened was that they'd pick up a signal, then radio the position to destroyers in the area.
There were also the odd freelancers. Hemingway supposedly went out hunting U-Boats, although it was more likely just another excuse to get out on the boat and drink. He wrote a novel about it, the posthumously published (and so-so) "Islands in the Stream."
There's a good overview of the Picket Patrol here:
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/h_beachpatrol.html
Here's one story from that site:
The Edlu II, patrolling south of Montauk Point, N.Y., on Sept. 15, 1942, spotted a surfaced U-boat less than 100 yards away. Even though the Edlu II had not yet received depth charges, the small craft began to close, hoping to take the U-boat under machine gun fire. The Nazi vessel spotted the small boat and immediately dove, it is not surprising that the skipper of the submarine chose to submerge, he could not be certain what weapons the Edlu II had. The threat of the picket boats was not realized by some U-boat commanders. One German skipper surfaced his sub beside a reserve boat and reportedly stepped out on the deck. In excellent English he shouted, "Get the hell out of here, you guys! Do you want to get hurt? Now, scram!"
Not so! IF the object of the seizure (or its destruction) is directly related to supporting the enemy's war effort, it is a legitimate war objective. I made that proviso in the earlier post.
Certainly rape is impermissible. However, you have yet to make the case that thousands of POW's were murdered in the camps. Both in the south and in the north, camp conditions were not good, and many, if not most of the deaths in those camps were due to illness or disease. My ancestor who was captured at Fort Donelson, TN, acquired dysentery (common enough in both armies, not to mention POW camps!), and after he was paroled/traded, he was discharged because of the lingering illness, and lived to tell the tale. Had he died in captivity, I don't think I would have considered him "murdered."
On the other hand, didn't the term "dead line" originate at Andersonville?
#3324 PRECISELY describes what 99+% of your unionist/lunatic propaganda & spin is worth.
free dixie,sw
Page 116 of a four-page magazine article? Your book doesn't exist, Watie. Your captured U-Boat in a Galveston County Park doesn't exist. Your court case awarding the captured U-Boat crew to the State of Texas doesn't exist. You've been busted making up evidence again.
For anyone else paying attention, check up the thread. Go to the University of Houston library website and search their online catalog. Follow the link to the other thread where Watie identifies the author of this "book", then do a Google search.
1. you don't know what you're talking about (& i do, as i used to teach "Law of War" at USAMPS) &
2. you go acquire the US Army Field Manual "THE LAW OF WAR" and READ it.
you'll then KNOW the law & you'll look smarter too.
Maybe in the 1960's, but not anymore.
"i'm truly pleased that your family was killed, as they got exactly what they deserved."
Who? When? On what thread? I'll bet the farm that you're going to say (if you respond at all) that it was pulled because it was so offensive. Well, if it was directed to you, it still exists in your archives. Post it for everyone to see. But you can't, can you? Because you've made it up.
You are right - it is interesting.
Com'n Heyworth. Stop posting your "your unionist/lunatic propaganda"! ;^)
Get the name right. I'm "Heyworth the Hateful."
How is it that you can cite a page number for a book that you claim, in post #3200, not to own a copy of?
Not so. You've fallen for Northern propaganda again.
stand watie once recommended a book called "Portals to Hell, Military Prisons of the Civil War" by Lonnie R. Speer. On his recommendation I bought it. It's a good book and covers the prisons of both sides. It says the following (pg 263-264):
When word got back to the North about Andersonville's deadline, it became infamous. It was written about time and again by the northern press, and, at the war's end, Union government officials publicly condemned its use. Prior to all this publicity, few people knew what a deadline was or that such a thing ever existed. The problem was, of course, that all of the hoopla was purely government propaganda. All of the stockade type prisons had deadlines for security purposes, and Union prisons were no exception. That fact was kept hidden from the American public until well after the war, with the return of Confederate prisoners, yet while the northern press and the public were whipped into a rage over Andersonville's deadline, Union guards were shooting POWs in the "dead-runs" of Rock Island, Johnson's Island, Camp Douglas and other similar places.
The book indicates that a deadline was built into the Johnson's Island prison camp in Ohio in 1861, the first prison build by Federals to house Confederate prisoners (pg 78).
On the web, I found a prison diary (Link) kept by a Confederate soldier that seems to imply there was a dead line at Rock Island prison (Illinois) in January of 1864 when this prisoner arrived. The first prisoners arrived at Andersonville in February 1864.
The dead line wasn't the only place where prisoners were apt to get shot. That Rock Island diary says the following:
In April, 1864, the sentinels on the parapet commenced firing at the prisoners and into the barracks, and this practice continued while I remained. I am ignorant as to the orders the sentinels received, but I know that the firing was indiscriminate, and apparently the mere caprice of the sentinels. Going to the sinks at night was a most dangerous undertaking, for they were now built on the "dead line,"
Right. But please notice exactly what I said:
"The United States of America is founded on the Constitution, and on no other document."
That's the Union of the People(s) and the Government of the Union. "America" is the country.
[Your challenge] Example?
His theory, which I referred to, that the Union antedated the Constitution, and that the first principles of government should be discovered in the Declaration of Independence. I read somewhere that someone said that Lincoln was the first to point to the Declaration as the cornerstone of the United States, but I don't think that's right. There was a book on constitutional law that Lincoln repaired to, that embodied the Hamiltonian view of the Union as he had hoped to establish it. The relevant section has been posted to one of our threads, I think by nolu chan, whom one of your amigos thoughtfully got banned. Perhaps you or someone else on the thread knows where it is; I regret I neglected to archive a link or a copy of the article.
Nevertheless, the passage showed that the idea of the Constitution's not being the founding document, was not native to Lincoln but was a Hamiltonian and Federalist legacy. You will notice the irony, that Lincoln the Hamiltonian had to militate against Hamilton's child, the Constitution, in favor of Jefferson's Declaration, in his search to find a source of authority that would allow him credibly to contradict the People's acts in the departing States and attempt to overrule them by coup de main.
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