Confederate States Of America (2005)

Yahoo Movies ^ | 12/31/04 | Me

[4CJ]

And?

Reading comprehension problems?

[Non-Sequitur]

Reading comprehension problems?

None whatsoever. I just don't understand the relevance. The southern states were never out of the Union.

[4CJ]

Lincoln was never in the senate.

Bump. My bad. He just railed against the President attempting to suborn a Senator. Either way he thought it unconstitutional. To bad he didn't feel that way a decade later about state congresses and Federal judges.

[Non-Sequitur]

He just railed against the President attempting to suborn a Senator. Either way he thought it unconstitutional. To bad he didn't feel that way a decade later about state congresses and Federal judges.

Check it again, please. That quote was made by Stephen Douglas and not Abraham Lincoln.

[4CJ]

I just don't understand the relevance.

The court ruled that 'when any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish the same'.

Exactly what occured in the seceeding states.

Then, 'the courts of the United States are bound to follow the decisions of the State tribunals'. Not that the federal government can substitute it's will for that of the state.

The only limit was that a state may not forcibly alter it's government 'while a State remains in the Union'. It does not state that a state must remain in the union, or that secession is prohibited.

[4CJ]

Oh, so Lincoln never saw anything unconsitutional about coercion of the Senate, state congresses or federal judges?

That explains that.

[Non-Sequitur]

The court ruled that 'when any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish the same'.

You're on a role today. That quote is from the statement for the plaintiff and not from the majority decision written by Chief Justice Taney.

Luther v Borden

[Non-Sequitur]

Oh, so Lincoln never saw anything unconsitutional about coercion of the Senate, state congresses or federal judges?

No, the point is that you attributed a quote to Lincoln which he did not say. Accuracy has never been that important to the southron contingent I guess.

[4CJ]

A Wlatism. This WAS stated by Taney

No one, we believe, has ever doubted the proposition, that, according to the institutions of this country, the sovereignty in every State resides in the people of the State, and that they may alter and change their form of government at their own pleasure.
[48 US 1, 41]

As was this:

'Undoubtedly the courts of the United States have certain powers under the Constitution and laws of the United States which do not belong to the State courts. But the power of determining that a State government has been lawfully established, which the courts of the State disown and repudiate, is not one of them. Upon such a question the courts of the United States are bound to follow the decisions of the State tribunals.'
[48 US 1, 41]

He also states that the President,

'is to act upon the application of the legislature or of the executive' of the state.
[48 US 1, 43]

[4CJ]

Accuracy has never been that important to the southron contingent I guess.

Nonsense. The quote is from Douglas - I looked it up myself after you pointed it out. I simply asked 'so Lincoln never saw anything unconsitutional about coercion of the Senate, state congresses or federal judges?'

Judging by his actions, I can see why you failed to respond with an answer.

[4CJ]

"In the course of his reply, Senator Douglas remarked, in substance, that he had always considered this government was made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois", 16 Oct 1854, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 281.

"Now I protest against that counterfeit logic which concludes that, because I do not want a black woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. I need not have her for either, I can just leave her alone. In some respects she certainly is not my equal; but in her natural right to eat the bread she earns with her own hands without asking leave of any one else, she is my equal, and the equal of all others." [italics in original]
Abraham Lincoln, "Speech at Springfield, Illinois", 26 Jun 1857, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol. II, p. 405.

[4CJ]

More from Lincoln, "But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. You are cut off from many of the advantages which the other race enjoy. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality with the best when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours. Go where you are treated the best, and the ban is still upon you."
Abraham Lincoln, "Address on Colonization to a Deputation of Negroes", 14 Aug 1862, Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln, (Roy P. Basler, ed.), Vol V, p. 372.

[Non-Sequitur]

The quote is from Douglas - I looked it up myself after you pointed it out.

Well thank you for finally clearing that up.

I simply asked 'so Lincoln never saw anything unconsitutional about coercion of the Senate, state congresses or federal judges?'

I don't know, I've never looked it up. Judging by his actions, I can see why you failed to respond with an answer.

I was refuting your misquote.

[Non-Sequitur]

A Wlatism.

So should we start referring to deliberate misquotes as a'4CJism'?

This WAS stated by Taney

Yeah, but what he didn't say was, "The court ruled that 'when any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish the same'." like you claimed.

[4CJ]

4CJ: 'So Lincoln never saw anything unconsitutional about coercion of the Senate, state congresses or federal judges?'

NS: I don't know, I've never looked it up.

Based on Lincoln's actions, do have have any idea what his policy was?

[Non-Sequitur]

OK, and now what are these quotes in reference to?

[4CJ]

So should we start referring to deliberate misquotes as a'4CJism'?

Sorry, but nothing deliberate about it. A mistake on my part, but not a deliberate attempt to have the justice. In contrast, one Capitan Refugio continued to post misleading statements even after being corrected by nolu chan and myself.

Yeah, but what he didn't say was, "The court ruled that 'when any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, inalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter, or abolish the same'." like you claimed.

What he did say was 'the sovereignty in every State resides in the people of the State, and that they may alter and change their form of government at their own pleasure'.

[4CJ]

OK, and now what are these quotes in reference to?

For thoughtful reflection on the saint of the Republican party.

[Non-Sequitur]

I can see where you wouldn't want to reflect on southern leaders, but we can go with this if you want to. Rather than put the quotes in reply 2731 in context, let's look at the quotes in reply 2732.

So, was Lincoln wrong in those comments? Were black men and women considered equal anywhere in the country? Forget the south for a moment, we know that blacks were considered useless and fit for nothing but slavery by the southern leaders and the southern people. Were they considered equal up North? Were they going to be afforded the same opportunities as whites up North? They may no longer be slaves, but were they going to be free to do what they wished and say what they wished and and live where they wished anywhere in the country, North or south? So what was Lincoln being but brutally honest with the delegation, and telling them what they probably already knew? And then he finished with a strong suggestion at colonization, a program he believed in along with men like Robert Lee and John Breckenridge. So what, exactly, are you trying to show in your post?

[M. Espinola]

Today on The History Channel an eye opening documentary ran, which will most likely re-air again. Below is from The History Channel website:

'MISSISSIPPI STATE SECRETS reveals the extent to which the state government was involved with halting the advance of Civil Rights in Mississippi. Recently released files document the activities of the Mississippi Sovereignty Commission, an agency that spied on people suspected of involvement in the Civil Rights Movement. One observer has called the commission a mixture of George Orwell's 1984 and the Keystone Cops. In its files are the names of some 80,000 people and evidence of criminal acts taken against them, like the beating of a white minister who refused to close a preaching school for African Americans.'

'MISSISSIPPI STATE SECRETS is an extraordinary look at the other side of the Civil Rights Movement, revealing the incredible extent of institutionalized resistance'