Posted on 11/30/2004 8:20:58 AM PST by mojojockey
Im a conservative...and still struggle with the idea of whether or not to be a Christian. I find more in common with Ayn Rand's view that "rational thinking" is man's only absolute. Is there anything wrong with this thinking?
No, and I don't even find the two concepts to be in conflict. Live your life by the principles of reason, and if you feel a call to Christianity over and above that, that's fine. In my view, Christianity does not insist upon the forsaking of reason, as Islam and many other cults do.
and still struggle with the idea of whether or not to be a Christian
What do you think being a Christian means? For me, it means essentially believing that Jesus is the son of God and that he died on the cross for my sins. There's more to it, but not much more. Are you struggling with whether or not you are going to believe that, or are you struggling with whether or not you're going to go to church on Sunday mornings?
IMO - since youve asked - its humanism plain and simple. You dont become a Christian to enjoy the benefits - you become a Christian through faith in Jesus Christ and the fact He atoned for the whole sin of mankind through His Crucifixion, overcoming death in the resurrection by surrenduring His will for the Fathers (God)
You can claim forgiveness for your sins through this atonement, by inviting Christ into your heart.
a life with Christ in your heart opens the door to eternal life
PEOPLE STILL CRY OUT, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
The Bible provides a clear answer. Here are the logical steps from God's Word, the Bible, that all must take to be saved.
ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR SIN
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)
First, see yourself for what you are . . . a sinner. Sin is tragic, vile . . . it blights, degrades, destroys. It has dire consequences: 'The soul who sins is the one who will die." (Ezekiel 18:4) For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
REPENT OF YOUR SIN
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out . . . (Acts 3:19)
You must also repent. Repentance is not making a resolution to do better. It is not just conviction of sin, for a person may be convinced that he is wrong and still not repent. D.L. Moody liked to describe repentance this way: "Man is born with his back toward God. When he truly reprents, he turns right around and faces God. Repentance is a change of mind, a change of heart, and it results in a change of action."
As the Bible says, "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, and let him turn unto the Lord . . . for He will abundantly pardon." (Isaiah 55:7) You must change your mind about sin and want God to end its mastery over you. After all, sin is so bad it took Christ's death to make forgiveness possible for you.
BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Believe in the completed work Christ accomplished on the cross. You must believe that Christ substituted Himself for you, that He died for your sins (though He never sinned), and that He was resurrected from death. "The punishment that brought us peace was upon Him." (Isaiah 53:5) Our sins nailed Him to the cross, and "by His wounds we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5) "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)
MAKE YOUR DECISION
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and beleive in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)
You must believe in Christ and receive Him personally into your life by faith if you are to be saved from the power of sin and its consequences. "To all who received Him, to those who believed on His name, He gave the right to become children of God." (John 1:12)
Will you pray to God something like this? "God, I'm convinced I am a sinner, and that Christ alone can save me. I willingly repent of my sinful life and believe Jesus Christ died for me. I want to receive Him as my personal Savior."
Excellent response Rev. Thanks for the ping.
props to marlowe - I lifted it from him
Although I'm a fan of Rand's, I do think there is an inherent problem with positioning "rational thinking" as the only absolute.
People have developed extremely rational, highly complex systems of thought to justify any number of hideous practices. Even the Objectivist position that forbids individual choices from interfering with other individuals has often been twisted in the name of "Greater Good".
A hyper rational philosophy is fine for an individual but it inevitably leads to Utilitarianism when practiced by societies. Aside from its innate cruelty, Utilitarianism is all too often used to promote socialist ideas. There have been many completely "rational" analyzes that conclude that Christianity is, indeed, the logical choice of a well ordered mind. Even if you have no belief (and therefore, perhaps, no salvation) behaving according to Christian precepts will give you a happier, healthier life that has fewer self-generated problems.
There is no need for a conflict between Reason and Christianity. If you are interested in Christianity, begin by reading the Bible and a good commentary and by practicing Christian behaviors (sort of a grown-up version of WWJD). In time, faith may come but even if it doesn't you will at least know that you have treated others kindly and protected yourself from the more dangerous elements of our culture.
I mean this respectfully. If you need to ask this question in this way, you’re nowhere near ready to abandon your Christian roots for Ayn Rand.
It takes an exceptionally independent personality with great confidence to be successful and happy as an Objectivist, unlike being a Christian that comes with an instant support base and culture. Objectivists are not totally on their own, but they have to work much harder to find similarly minded friends, to get past the misconceptions about their ideology and to defend yourself in places like this. Needless to say, I don’t think Objectivism is a good fit for everyone.
You asked for advice? Stay close to Christianity for at least a few more years, even if you choose to study Objectivism. And don’t model your personality after Rand’s literary protagonists like a lot of newbies seen to do. {smile}
Good luck, and have a good journey!
PS, What Gingersnap’s referring to is resolved by a dirty little truth of Objectivism. “Reason” in that context really means reasoning in accordance with Ayn Rand’s reasoning. By following the basic conclusions she reached, it’s not possible to drift off into the hideous practices that have befallen so many ideologies and religions. It’s not that you can’t go there, just that you’re something other than an Objectivist if you do.
When I first read the Gospels it was with skepticism. Now, there is nothing I believe with more certainty.
ping
You're right, of course. It's the same old argument,"What I'm doing is X (Objectivist, Christian, Vegan, etc.) but the way you're doing it is not X, therefore you are not X."
Philosophies are seldom practiced in the ideal form envisioned by their creators. Interpretations vary, emergency exceptions are made, hard truths are softened to become more acceptable or accessible.
My objection isn't with Objectivism per se but with the application as filtered through individuals and culture.
(I'm personally sticking with Christianity, however.)
mojojockey, I’m of no use to you concerning Ayn Rand because I have not studied her and have no desire to do so. I turned away from even reading the ideology after a cursory view showed there were two schools – one which focused on the ideology and the other which devoted itself to Rand as a person. Anytime a mortal becomes the focus of devotion, red flags go up in my spirit and I walk away.
Jesus Christ of course is no mere mortal. So if you are hearing Him, then listen. All the knowledge in the universe will not give you wisdom. But if you listen to Him, He will know you and you will be indwelled by the Spirit of God who will lead you into all Truth (John 15-17).
Love God above everything else, including wisdom. That is the Great Commandment (Matthew 22:36-38)
The Scriptures record the life of Solomon who sought wisdom above all else. It was a noble minded journey because of his responsibility for the people, but without Christ, without loving God first, even wisdom will lead to despair.
If you like Rand, You'll Love Thomas Aquinas.
If man's rational thinking is the only absolute, we are probably in big trouble. Via rational thinking, one can be both a liberal and a conservative. Much of it depends on which premises you start with. For example, what is the nature of man? A humanistic start would say we are infinitely perfectible using our own power. A Judeo Christian view (JC, if needed again) says we are fallen and cannot improve our nature on our own accord. In fact JC says there is an enemy, Satan, that is working continually to prevent that.
Using those two different premises and rational thinking can bring you many different directions.
So test the premise, one might way. But after at least 6000 years of human history can you say we are really closer to resolving through rational thinking which premise is correct. For me, if anything the last 6000 years proves that we cannot be improved. We can change our circumstances and technology, but who can prove with any certainty that we have changed the human heart in a positive way?
You can be a conservative without being a Christian. In fact you can be liberal and be a Christian. For we deceive ourselves if we think Christ has anything to do with modern labels. HE is above that and demands our all. If we are in him, He will change our views over time to conform to what He wants.
But one thing we can't do is have a strong society when worldviews are at war. The divided will fall. And the U.S. is now divided like it hasn't been for 140 years.
Great response, Gingersnap!
Lord, your analysis once again cuts to the meat of the matter.
I thinnk Marx and Nietzche probably didnt envision what many of their followers later did inspired by their ideology. That doesnt change the number of those that died and suffered horribly in life because of them.
There are many more truths than Reason, even Right Reason, can know, validate or appreciate, like the true love of a mother, the beauty of a sunrise in the mountains, or a simple unexpected act of kindness.
Have a good day!
***and still struggle with the idea of whether or not to be a Christian.***
Why would you want to be a Christian?
great answer
Try it this way: Rational thought is the output of processing truth. But one must input the truth, find the source of all truth.
Truth never changes. But our understanding of it does. Precept upon precept, concept upon concept.
God never changes. But our understanding of Him does. Precept upon precept, concept upon concept.
First, God afar off. Then ever closer ... and closer, as the barriers of fear and guilt evaporate and the veil of flesh (exoteric understanding) is lifted. Then we see He is with us, Emmanuel. Not afar off after all. But ever-present.
For Christ IS and always IS, the ever-presence of God to man in our material and non-material realities -- as we are in Him and He is in us.
Full circle. Now that we have the source of truth, we can think rationally.
And sometimes we succeed. ;>
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