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To: capitan_refugio
Pequeño, yourself.

Who's a Holocaust denier? Name names.

Then, support your equation of "[t]hose who deny that secession was inexorably linked to the propagation and expansion of chattel slavery" with real Holocaust deniers.

Tell me who has denied the link, and show how their skepticism is flatly wrong and morally loaded, despite the fact that States leaving the Union implicitly gave up their claims in the Territories, and thereby abandoned all efforts on behalf of their citizens to prove that Southerners had the right to migrate to the Territories with their slaves.

The South gave up on the Territories and the subject of the expansion of slavery, by seceding. Secession is negatively tied to "the expansion of slavery", if secession guaranteed that there would be no expansion.

You made a foolish statement, just to halfway support calling people who disagree with you "Holocaust deniers". But it seems to me that the vilification of competing opinion and the expression of satisfaction with Civil War violence and "puttings down" is a lot better cultural index of who is infected with the spirit you ascribe to others.

170 posted on 11/15/2004 6:05:03 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Do you knnow what "Pequeño" means? (It is a term I use for my nephew.) Last time you responded with an obscenity. Do you prefer "muchacho tortilla"?

"... despite the fact that States leaving the Union implicitly gave up their claims in the Territories, and thereby abandoned all efforts on behalf of their citizens to prove that Southerners had the right to migrate to the Territories with their slaves.... The South gave up on the Territories and the subject of the expansion of slavery, by seceding. Secession is negatively tied to 'the expansion of slavery', if secession guaranteed that there would be no expansion."

It seems to me Mr. GOPc would disagree that the CSA gave up claims to territories, especially in present-day Arizona and New Mexico, the "Indian Territory"; not to mention expansionist designs on Mexico and Cuba. It was Senator Albert Gallatin Brown of Mississippi who said, "I want Cuba ... I want Tampaulipas, Potosi, and one or two other Mexican states; and I want them all for the same reason - for the planting and spreading of slavery."

"You made a foolish statement, just to halfway support calling people who disagree with you 'Holocaust deniers'. "

Slavery has been termed the "African Holocaust" and the "American Holocaust." The CSA was intended by its designers to be, in their view, the ultimate evolution of slavey-based society. Bug-eyed Congressman Keitt of South Carolina stated: "African slavery is the cornerstone of the industrial, social, and political fabric of the South; and whatever wars against it, wars against her very existence. Strike down the institution of African slavery and you reduce the South to depopulation and barbarism." Bug-eyed Congressman Hammond of South Carolina stated, "I do firmly believe that domestic slavery, regulated as ours is, produces the highest toned, the purest, best organization of society that has ever existed on the face of the earth." CSA Vice President Stephens said, "[The Confederacy's] cornerstone rests upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man..."

The words of those who were secessionist leaders belie the story you like to tell. The creation of a southern republic was intended, largely, to preserve and expand the institution of slavery. Those who would deny that simple truth are not unlike those who deny the truth about the European Holocaust of the 1930s-40s.

181 posted on 11/15/2004 8:53:56 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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