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To: capitan_refugio
A cannon salute from some Dutch dependency did not make the United States a nation.

I take it then that you date American nationhood to sometime after November 1776 and thus necessarily after July 4, 1776 as well.

It's a quaint story, however.

It's a very interesting and significant story to our nation's history. It set the stage for St. Eustasius providing a pivotal role as a channeling point for transfering European armaments to Washington's army. It is also the subject of Barbara Tuchman's book "The First Salute."

What is troubling is your chronic and habitual penchant for fantasy. Saxe-Coburg Gotha was an insignificant duchy.

It is no fantasy to note the very real fact of diplomatic recognition, capitan. You simply don't like that fact, thus you expend your energies belittling Saxe Coburg Gotha and its most famous offspring.

A review of Mann's rosy letters suggest that he was as deluded as you are.

Once again you supplant an effort to discuss material facts of history with unnecessary personal invective and venom. You and your apprentice ftD have much in common in that respect.

1,632 posted on 11/27/2004 11:22:26 PM PST by GOPcapitalist ("Marxism finds it easy to ally with Islamic zealotism" - Ludwig von Mises)
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To: GOPcapitalist
"I take it then that you date American nationhood to sometime after November 1776 and thus necessarily after July 4, 1776 as well."

The American Declaration of Independence was a revolutionary act. It was opposed by the former sovereign. We recognize July 4, 1776, as the day we established the United States of America because we sustained our independence, and concluded a treaty with the former sovereign. Along the way we received the diplomatic recogntion from several world powers.

On the other hand, the southern states purported to secede through legal means. They then purported to form their own country. Neither in their unitary status, or in their confederacy, wer they ever recognized by any of the world powers, or even the neighboring countries.

The legitimate government reasserted its authority and the illusionary and illegitimate CSA was no more.

"It is no fantasy to note the very real fact of diplomatic recognition, capitan."

If SCG's "diplomatic recognition" was a "very real fact," then you should have no trouble actually posting the document of quoting from it in full. (Please don't repeat your dodge that it is on file in Richmond - that is getting old. You make a claim that is contrary to most, if not all, published accounts.) Let's see what you can come up with.

1,693 posted on 11/29/2004 12:36:24 AM PST by capitan_refugio
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