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To: lentulusgracchus
But not people who come around with fairy-stories about "mystical Unions"

Are we in a mystical union now?

The idea that you would form a Government that could be broken up at the whim of any single state is simply ridicilous.

The South rejected New England states attempt to do so in the War of 1812 when they wanted to leave the Union, since the War was destroying them fiancially.

Even the Souths'own Constitution has the goal of a permanent government, not a mere compact of sovereign nations.

The States were to be sovereign in those areas that were not expressly given to the Federal Gov't, but that did not mean they were individual nations.

1,343 posted on 11/26/2004 5:27:00 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
The idea that you would form a Government that could be broken up at the whim of any single state is simply ridicilous.

1. Get over asserting, frivolously and untruthfully, that a State or States leaving the Union breaks up the whole United States. That's a dishonest argument, and you know it by now -- you've been told, and it has been shown you, that Florida's and Georgia's leaving the Union in no way impaired the adhesion of Wisconsin, Minnesota, and California.

2. That is exactly the kind of government we formed, because we reserved every power not granted to the United States by the Constitution, to the States and the People by passing the Tenth Amendment. We also made sure, by the Ninth Amendment, that the enumeration and specification of some rights in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights could never be used to deny the rest of our reserved rights and powers.

The basic problem here is that you like how the Civil War came out, and you will not listen to anything that doesn't tell you how lucky and how smart you are, or that tells you that perhaps your heroes of the Union may have perpetrated instead the single greatest crime in the history of North America, or even of the New World, in the pursuit of power and wealth.

1,347 posted on 11/26/2004 5:41:07 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Are we in a mystical union now?

I think someone got that from Lincoln's line in the First Inaugural about "mystic chords of memory", and the Hamiltonians' theory debunking the Constitution (since so much of what they always wanted to do was outside it), by which the Union came into being before the actual document which establishes the Republic, which is the Constitution.

Whenever someone -- a West Coast Straussian or Claremonster, or a 19th-century Federalist or Whig, or a liberal New Dealer -- starts talking about the Declaration of Independence, that's code for "I want to go outside the Constitution and do myself a big, fat, favor!"

1,353 posted on 11/26/2004 6:02:05 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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