Posted on 10/12/2004 8:42:25 PM PDT by knak
up on drudge:
WASH TIMES: U.S. security officials are investigating a recent intelligence report that a group of 25 Chechen terrorists illegally entered the United States from Mexico... Members of the group, said to be wearing backpacks, secretly traveled to northern Mexico and crossed into a mountainous part of Arizona, Gertz to report in Pgae One Splash, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE...
True, but locking the borders down is a solution. If they come across the border and do enough mayhem then people here will welcome a police state just as they have accepted it at the airports.
How easy it would be to install a bank of cameras on that hill. And remotely operated mortars. One guy sitting in his Barcalounger at home could control that whole area.
Yes, it is more patrolled, but I don't think even Bill Klinton could spin our Border Patrol in the Southwest as "heavy". It is a skeleton crew at best! Yes, it's even more sparsely patrolled in the North, but when only 10-20% of the illegal scumbag aliens who break into our nation over our Southern border are caught, it's not exactly "dangerous", at least not in the law enforcement perspective.
"But the biggest reason the terrorists will not sneak in illegally is that the probability of them being caught is far too high which would compromise their mission."
A 10-20% chance of getting caught is "too high" for a Muslim terrorist raghead SOB who's been brainwashed into thinking that he's going to strike a blow against the Great Satan, and he'll have 72 virgins waiting for him if he's killed? Again, I'd like to know what is your insight into the terrorist mind that makes you believe an 80-90% chance of success is too daunting for our enemies to undertake a mission.
"This is the reason the 9/11 murderers all came into the country legally."
That was then, this is now. With all the scrutiny being given to visas and airport security, an enemy operative would be crazy to try to come in the same way Al-Shahee, Atta and company did. But with all the attention we're giving to airports, we're doing relatively little more to guard the borders (and let's not forget the coastlines, either). Yeah, Bush has added a thousand or so more Border Patrol agents, and is sending up a few Predators to monitor the comings and goings along the Mexican border. But to catch the bad guys, we need more boots on the ground...a whole lot more. Long story short, we need more people, be they BP or military, actively patrolling both borders...and more Coast Guard units patrolling the shorelines.
"They will not be sneaking across borders with weapons or traveling around with weapons. They will not have any contact with weapons until the time to use them."
And you know this how? Where will they get their weapons, if they don't bring them in? Have you bought into the CommieLib lie that they buy their firearms at those eeeeeevil gun shows? If so, that's a topic for another thread, but I urge you not to fall for that line of anti-gun propoganda.
"If you were a terrorist would YOU take any unnecessary risks knowing that the slightest slip-up could doom your mission? Even a random police stop could prevent its success with illegals."
If I were a terrorist, convinced that 72 virgins were waiting for me if I died while on a mission to strike a blow at the Great Satan, I'm pretty sure I'd accept an 80-90% chance of success. You make it sound like we're catching them as soon as they set foot on US soil...reality is we catch only 10-20% of those who break into our nation. Random police stop? You seem to believe that most illegal scumbag aliens drive over the border at legal ports of entry. Now that would be a stupid thing to do...with all the attention and police presence at the ports, why on Earth would they cross there? No, I'm pretty sure most illegal scumbags cross by foot, and meet their rides/sponsors/family members/employers/whatever at some prearranged remote location. No, our enemy isn't stupid...he's smart enough to get 80-90% of his people in under our noses.
"Actually it doesn't take much thinking to figure out that terrorists use the least risky methods to accomplish their designs not the MOST risky. Would YOU try to smuggle weapons across dangerous borders when there are MUCH easier methods to use."
What is less risky than coming over our borders?!? Good grief...I think we see every day how easy it is to get in. I think we hear every day how Border Patrol agents are frustrated in having their hands tied...in the form of not enough help, scumbags that are caught one day, deported the next, and right back the day after that, etc. You seem to think that crossing the border, either the Northern or Southern, is akin to climbing Mt. Everest. It's literally a case of walking over a line in the sand. Hell, they have more to fear from dehydration and snakes than from getting caught!
"You wanted to know where I obtained insight into the terrorist mind. One excellent source is to study the 9/11 Commission Report discussion of that terrorist operation. However, there have been many publications over the last century which go into their thinking."
So you gain your insight from self-important blowhards who write reports, eh? Well, you might want to talk to people who have made their living infiltrating borders, screen lines, etc. I'm not tooting my own horn here, but from my own experience in patrolling and infiltrating, our borders would be a walk in the park, if the proper preparations were made (water, first aid, proper clothing, map and compass, a contact on "the other side", etc.). Do you honestly think Jamie Gore-lick knows a damn thing about the mindset of an enemy contemplating how to get into the US? Good grief...the one member of the 9-11 Commission who knows anything about infiltrating is a stark, staring moron...Bob Kerry! "Excellent source"...hogwash! The Commission was a money-wasting, ego-maniacial exercise in political masturbation, and nothing else.
"Another factor which has generally been ignored is that in order to get into the US from Mexico you have to get to Mexico."
Oh yeah, and we know how hard that is to do (/ sarcasm ). Come one now...don't you think, knowing how corrupt the Mexican government and its employees are, that it would be pretty easy to bribe your way into Mexico? Especially in light of the reports we've seen right here on FReep of people who got into Mexico on false South African and South American documents? To paraphrase "Stripes", getting into Mexico would be easier than getting into Cleveland!
"I am sure that immigrants from the ME are given great scrutiny by the Mexican authorities since 9/11. They would not like to have terrorists enter Mexico for transit to the US either."
You've got to be kidding! Mexican border and immigration agents are all Boy Scouts, right? Sheesh...you've never been to Mexico, have you? Let me assure you that they love our money, and that's it. They couldn't care less about our security.
"Now if you insist on worrying a better subject would be the Sleeper cells which have been established here or better yet the real enemy, the DemocRAT Party and its propaganda arm the RATmedia. We have nothing to fear if they can be neutralized."
Okay, so the sleeper cells we have in the US right now came here before 9-11 by legal means, and none have come here since, using illegal means, right? They're not being resupplied in any way by anyone outside the US, right? They're buying their weapons and ammo from those eeeeevil gun shows, right? It's all the fault of the 'Rats and Hollyweird, and the Pubbies are ever so vigilant in guarding our borders, right? If we could only somehow wipe out the 'Rats once and for all, the US would be like Paradise, with nothing ever to fear again? You, sir, sure sound like a shameless partisan, a yeller-dawg Pubbie, a Bush Kool-Aid drinker. Mind you, I'm not calling you that...it would be impolite for me to do so. But dang if you don't sound like one. Your brand of pre 9-11 thinking cost us a couple of buildings, several billions of dollars, 3,000 people and damn near derailed our economy. I'd rather take the steps to prevent something like from ever happening again, this time from across our borders and coastlines. But I guess you and I don't think alike...I think the blame for 9-11 and the 9-11 to come lies at the feet of everyone, not just one political party.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
More likely Chechens who speak English to their Mexican drug smugglers or Mexican revolutionaries cohorts.
Your post touches the heart of the problem. Simply put: Arab Islamic radicals are, everywhere in the world, recruiting failed classes of people to Islam and enlisting them in their jihad.
The same thing is happening in our prison system.
Yes, let's mortar-bomb unarmed men, women, and children for crossing an invisible line.
Don't be surprised when the remote controls are disabled by the afternoon, and Katie Couric makes the blown-up children the lead story on Today the next day...
Don't be silly. A shot across the bow would be enough to send them back the other way.
Next morning: CNN runs video of little 8-year-old Paco Gonzales thrashing around, minus his legs, guts hanging out of his lower torso, along with transcripts of the guy in his Barcalounger thinking it's the funniest thing he's ever seen.
OK, hotshot, what now?
Uh-huh.
What happens when the illegals repeatedly enter into the engagement zone, get fired on, scamper away...and then the mortars run out of ammunition?
What happens when the wind's blowing the wrong away and shoves a few rounds into Mexico, injuring or killing Mexican citizens?
Not to worry, in a week they will be hooked on tv and pizza and be turned instantly into peaceful and deeply desiring of American citizenship, pussy cats.
If they come back after the first shot, aim a little closer next time. If they don't stop after the third shot, kill them and send a sorry card and flowers to Katie Couric.
What happens when the wind's blowing the wrong away and shoves a few rounds into Mexico, injuring or killing Mexican citizens?
That area is miles from civilization, and the wind can blow a mortar round only a few feet off target even if it weren't compensating for it.
She'll ignore the card and show just the final bit of tape, with Paco thrashing on the ground as he bleeds out.
That area is miles from civilization, and the wind can blow a mortar round only a few feet off target even if it weren't compensating for it.
You know, that bit of stupidity needs some penance. How about standing in an impact area on a gusty day? I'm sure the gusts will move the rounds only a few feet. You willing to bet your life on being right?
From a terrorist perspective the Southern border is far too dangerous. They don't want to risk a 20% chance of being caught 1% might be tolerable.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Obviously the risk does not end at the border for an illegal and if a terrorist is going to spend months or years here before an attack he will avoid the risk of being an illegal.
It takes no "knowledge of a terrorist's mind" to be able to figure out how they think. It is really quite simple but first one must know how to think. Knee-jerk spouting off from dubious assumptions is worthless.
You don't seriously expect me to believe you believe it is difficult to buy a gun illegally do you? Or that you can't get almost anything you want in the inner cities? Even McVeigh figured out how to get guns without buying them.
Obviously to those not being deliberately obtuse a random police stop can occur AT ANY TIME and at any place when one is driving in a car or riding in a car. Involvement with police can be from numerous sources and aren't limited to a border. A terrorist wants to be sure that such encounters are not going to unravel his plans.
Only an idiot believes Mexico or Mexicans are our enemy.
While no particular fan of the 9/11 Commission I prefer its description of how this plot was ACTUALLY done to vague generalities from self-appointed tacticians. And the Report contained much useful information relevent to these issues. Certainly more than would be available from goofballs hysterical about people doing what they have done for hundreds of year WITH NO CONCERN by authorities.
Mexicans desperate to feed their families are not a threat to us. They may be a nuisance or criminals. But criminals are not terrorists no matter what Kerry believes.
Anyone flying in with a ME name to Mexico will receive considerable scrutiny. Just because you are unaware of it does not change that. It would be worth a great deal of positive publicity to the Mexican government to be able to tout the breakup of a terrorist gang. Are these things SO difficult for you to figure out or is that obstuse attitude causing difficulties with your logical thinking again?
Every major city is run by RAT mayors and EVERY ONE has refused to cooperate with immigration authorities for years before 9/11. Every media source of any significance save Fox (barely) does nothing but attempt to undermine America in every way AND HAS FOR YEARS. Those are our main enemies because they make war on the truth and without the truth we can do little. Without their lies and misinformation Bush would be winning in a landslide and our soldiers would be much safer. They are the one's who make us vulnerable to our foreign enemies. They are the ones who help turn the world and part of our own people against defending our nation.
MY kind of thinking cost us nothing. I was aware of the danger from the Islamaniacs before you even heard of al Queda and read the Koran in the early 80s just to make sure I understood the mindset we were facing. THIS gave me great insight into the minds of the terrorists maybe some of your confusion could be aleviated if you read it.
You can put hundreds of thousands of troops on our borders and it would have NO impact on protecting us from terrorists. But it would be an enormously costly diversion of resources which would weaken the war on terror. Only those without knowledge of this matter or with massive naivety don't recognize this. Or those, like Kerry, attempting to undermine the President's efforts.
I think you're worse than that. I think you're a Canadian liberal.
Okay then, how about a retired ex-army colonel sitting in his Barcalounger?
My post was not a proposal. It was intended to illustrate how we have the technology to reduce manpower and cost in controlling the border.
It does not have to be a Hogan's Heros paradigm -- guys with binoculars in guard towers.
I am a slow learner and just keep pounding my head against those brick walls. :^(
Most of these are anti-Bush shills anyway I believe.
If you get a case of the liberal-feel-bads, get over it by looking at a picture of charred people jumping from the World Trade Center.
The alternative to controlling the border is sending our troops around the world to drop bombs to hit people we hope are terrorists -- and hope the wind isn't blowing the wrong way so we hit don't hit little Pacos.
We won't have to kill many people to control the border. Just a few to demonstrate that we are serious.
Hey, s**t-for-brains, I'm irrelevant in this scenario--it's Mr. & Mrs. John Doe, in Middle America, looking at the American government fragging a bunch of kids. They don't hang out on FR, they get their news from Katie & Peter...
How do you handle these people? You can ignore them--until November of an even-numbered year.
We won't have to kill many people to control the border. Just a few to demonstrate that we are serious.
Whereupon they will find other routes into the United States.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.