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To: thor76
It almost makes you want to burn the missalettes!

They're only code words if YOU make them so. I find nothing objectionable in those words or phrases, if they are sung as they are written. As for the song "Here I Am, Lord", I always thought it was written from the point of view of a young man offering his life to God and His Church as a priest. Who knew otherwise?

Whatever choices Dan Schutte has made in his life now, some of the St. Louis Jesuits music is very prayerful. I've always liked their use of the Psalms as the basis of many of their songs. Yes, much of it is pedestrian, but at least it gets people used to singing, and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on.

6 posted on 09/23/2004 10:31:09 PM PDT by SuziQ (Bush in 2004-Because we MUST!!!)
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To: SuziQ; thor76; Religion Moderator
They're only code words if YOU make them so. I find nothing objectionable in those words or phrases, if they are sung as they are written. As for the song "Here I Am, Lord", I always thought it was written from the point of view of a young man offering his life to God and His Church as a priest. Who knew otherwise?

You are, of course, right, SuziQ, but those who wish to tear down the Novus Ordo know that the best way to do it is to associate it with faggotry.

In their warped, hate-addled minds, you and I are homosexuals because we attend the Novus Ordo Mass. We can't possibly be good Catholics, and are condemned to hell because of the manner of worship we choose.

There is a vileness that has come to dominate this forum from those who despise the Church, the Pope, and the Mass that you and I attend. Ignore it. Be confident that your instincts are correct; that those who would debase your worship are simply misguided fools.

7 posted on 09/23/2004 10:43:07 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: SuziQ

"They're only code words if YOU make them so."

Not so. They are code words if the writer intended them so, or if men who suffer from SSAD are using them as such.

One bit of knowledge that I could have done without is that men who suffer from SSAD do use code words to identify themselves and each other.

As I recall, I became aware of that back in the 60s after a thoroughly puzzling (and short) conversation with a stranger about Judy Garland. "What the heck was he talking about?" I asked. He was checking to see if we also suffered from his disorder.

We may wish we were still in Kansas, but the Wicked Witch straddles his broomstick in the sky, ruby loafers never touching the ground, and peregrinates in a never-ending search for victims to drag into "the life."

"and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on."

You know, there are a lot of us who bitterly resent this insistance on everybody singing. It's like the Church was highjacked by John Denver or the New Christy Minstrels gone tone-deaf.

And we had far superior music *before,* so how come we're now waiting for some pie-in-the-sky, as-yet unwritten "better music?"


9 posted on 09/23/2004 10:52:45 PM PDT by dsc
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To: SuziQ

They're only code words if YOU make them so

Well, I am afraid that these words are in fact used as codes by their authors - and, very sadly, by certain readers with SSAD. The translation of them is not, in fact mine; it comes from a couple of authors, who are music and literary scholars. Unfortunately I do not have the sources or names to quote at the moment, as I am not at my desk.

My comments were not about Schutte specifically, nor about "Here Am I, Lord".

Actually, Schutte's text for "Here Am I , Lord" is based on Isaiah 6. This is a good basis to write a hymn.

But he bungled the words - to the point that the verses are very close to blasphemy. It is in his use of the word "I". To sing it, one is essentially saying that "I" am God. Such phrases are qualified in scripture and elsewhere by qualification: God said....the Lord said. To cite the context as a reference is insufficient: words have meaning.

Lastly, my post had nothing to do with the Novus Ordo as such. It was simply decrying a very sad reality in contemporary Catholic church music.


16 posted on 09/23/2004 11:16:24 PM PDT by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux!)
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To: SuziQ

"Yes, much of it is pedestrian, but at least it gets people used to singing, and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on."

I sing only Catholic music in church. If it has an OCP copyright, I don't trust it.
It is now "later on" and I am convinced.


39 posted on 09/24/2004 6:42:37 AM PDT by rogator
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To: sinkspur; SuziQ; thor76
Re: Code words in Novus Ordo music?

You may very well consider thor76’s idea over the top but none of this would be a problem if they were following what Vatican II said on the matter. We get attacked left and right, mostly from the left, for not respecting Vatican II so how come there is so little Gregorian chant around? I am beginning to suspect folks do not want to address this. Could it be because the NO is picking and choosing what it likes from Vatican II, past church documents and even early church practices, while ignoring what they dislike? Seems like itchy ears to me.

By the way complains about homophobic references on FR will be a big problem if you start this now. Have you seen the anti-homosexual references on the political forum. Woe daddy! 20-40% of the posts will have to be pulled.
51 posted on 09/24/2004 8:51:24 AM PDT by Mark in the Old South
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To: SuziQ
Yes, much of it is pedestrian, but at least it gets people used to singing, and they can be convinced to sing other BETTER music later on.

Actually, they can sing BETTER music right away--e.g., most of what's in the Collegeville hymnal, or in the St Michael Hymnal, or in Hymns, Psalms, and Spiritual Canticles.

NEVER underestimate a congregation. That's called condescension.

76 posted on 09/24/2004 2:49:36 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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