God saves those he chooses to save. Period.
If God chooses to save children, then He will save children. Jesus seems to say in John 9 that those to whom sight is never given are not charged with sin. But Romans chapter 1 states clearly that all men are given sight at some point and therefore "man" is without excuse.
Now if you want to be nitpicky, then an argument could be made from Romans 1 that not only children are excused, but also women. I don't go that far. I go as far as seeing that Romans chapter 1 lays the law on the hearts of all men and thus all men are responsible for choosing to obey the calling of God. That of course assumes that God must call all men.
I do not claim to be a Calvinist but I do align with many of Jean Calvin's teachings,
That is interesting. There is another poster who frequents here that claims he is not a Calvinist, but on further inspection he is a five point calvinist in every one of his posts and IMO tends not only towards Calvinism, but appears to align himself with many of the definitions of a hyper-Calvinist (and will probably throw a hissy fit because I even said the word "hyper-Calvinist" since he thinks that is something no Calvinist could ever be.
Well, I am not an Arminian. So perhaps between the two of us we can work out a theology that offends everyone.
I do believe that God is ultimately soveriegn and that nothing occurs in this world without his permission. It is hard for me to think otherwise of the Creator and Lord of all.
Dittos. Nothing could possibly happen at all unless it is, in fact, ordained of God. But there is a big differentiation in my mind between cause and ordain. Ordain can mean cause, but it can also mean ratify. Thus while God can cause men to believe in him or even sin, God can also let both good and bad things happen and place his stamp of ultimate approval, as it is all in conjunction with God's ultimate plan (which he has ordained by and through his foreknowledge).
I too look to Scripture for all revelation of God's character, will, and relationship to His creation. I beleive that Scripture is inerrant and inspired by God. I believe that Scripture teaches that God is a God of love, as you suggest. But love is merely one of Gods many attributes - although it IS a very significant aspect of His character.
Ditto
When we consider God's love, we cannot forget that His love does not contradict other aspects of His character such as justice, wisdom, omniscience, or compassion. When we say that God is love, it may not always result in a pleasant result from certain perspectives.
Ditto
We rarely understand God's perfect and divine will for His creation. As referenced earlier in this thread,
Not rarely, but NEVER. It is not our place to understand his will, but to accept it.
I prefer to trust God in His perfect wisdom even if His decisions appear cavalier from my perspective.
Ditto
The alternative that you purport is that we possess some intrinsic will within us that is prone to choose God. Obviously not all men have this intrinsic will because not all excercise this choice.
I don't believe I have ever said that. There is no "intrinsic" will in man that seeks after God. It is God's grace which is irresistibly thrust all men which allows them the capacity and the opportunity to positively respond to God's will. What is intrinsic in man is the urge to reject God and to reject his grace. To those who accept his grace, then his grace was irresistible to them, to those who ultimately reject his grace, then to them it was resistible. Amaziningly enough we are all different, we are not all robots. We are not actors on a stage reading from some script prepared by God. We are created in the image of God and in that sense we have a certain power over our destiny. God can save us. We can ensure our damnation.
You have choosen God, and all others who have chosen God, have been given some desire for God. I would propose that desire comes only from our Lord and Creator.
I was chosen by God. I merely responded postively to his saving grace. Had I died rejecting it, then it is clear that God would not have chosen me -- even from the foundation of the earth.
Now for a bit of my theology.
T-- Total Depravity -- all have sinned. None are righteous.
U -- Unconditional Election -- Not possible. There must be a condition otherwise it is arbitrary. God is not Arbitrary.
L-- Limited Atonement-- Not Biblical, but a necessary linchpin to hold together the other four point.
I -- Irresistible Grace -- You bet. It is irresistibly thrust upon all men. It is, however, rejectible grace. If you receive it you will be saved, if you reject it, you will be damned. But the same grace which results in one man's salvation may result in the next man's damnation.
P-- Perserverence of the Saints -- Eternal life is eternal. Once you have it, you can't lose it. Otherwise it is not eternal.
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My theology is a work in progress. The day I can say "I perfectly understand God" is the day God will take me home to ensure that the secret doesn't get out. :-)
Amen.
The day I can say "I perfectly understand God" is the day God will take me home to ensure that the secret doesn't get out. :-)
Kinda. God isn't a "secret" as far as I'm concerned. It's just that we, as mere creations, cannot understand God--not that He doesn't want us to.
"the reason I did not care for your list of saved/unsaved is because I am not going to put God in a box"
Sorry that it would offend you. I know you don't wish to limit God nor what He can do but He certainly does have His limits. God cannot violate His character. He does not have total free will in the sense that He must abide by His own nature. Can God lie? Can God destroy Himself? Can God change His mind? Scripture says He can do none of these, so there is a "box" that He fits into. I don't presume to know the mind of God nor do I expect to understand why He does some things - except that it is for His own glory. But He does tell us a great deal about Himself, His Son, and His Spirit in His Holy Scripture.
It is our obligation to know God as well as possible. He provides a means for us to do so by giving us an intellect, His Word, and His Spirit. If we are His children, God demands a personal relationship with us. In order to develop this relationship, we must know God to the best of our ability - just as we would in any human relationship. I don't think that trying to understand who God is and how God acts is akin to putting Him "in a box".
Actually, PM I found Total Depravity to be the linchpin, not Limited Atonement. In fact there are many Calvinists such as Dr. Steve who do not hold to a strict adherence to Limited Atonement. There is much debate on this within the Calvinists circles but I never found it to be much of an issue.
But as for Total Depravity I find the Calvinists are ALL in agreement. Everyone else (RCCers, Orthodox, and non-Calvinist Protestants) are on the other side of the fence. Total Depravity is where you'll find the argument on "free will" at. No one wants to admit that man is truely corrupted and cannot help himself except for the Calvinist. It is through an understanding of Total Depravity that one can understand Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints. Unconditional Election is just an extension of Total Depravity. Since we are unable to make the choice God chooses. It's really NOT Unconditional Election you disagree with or fail to understand. It's Total Depravity. This is the lynchpin of Calvinism and its what separates us from Arminian thinking.
So...... Christs blood washed only some sins? -
to its conclusion, God created and allowed the other sin to remain (sarcasm) - this one really steams my dumplings ;)- because whats happening is that on the base level, they are limiting the ability of Christ.