Sorry for my accounting error, I think the post was actually 351 (in response to 350).
I was not attempting to be contentious - merely curious about your understanding of salvation. I also noticed you answered another message after my posting, so I assumed you had read mine. From your postings here, I presumed that you followed a theology of free will. I rarely come in contact with those of that belief and wanted to learn more of this system of theology.
I do not claim to be a Calvinist but I do align with many of Jean Calvin's teachings, so if you choose to label me a Calvinist, that's up to you. I do believe that God is ultimately soveriegn and that nothing occurs in this world without his permission. It is hard for me to think otherwise of the Creator and Lord of all.
I too look to Scripture for all revelation of God's character, will, and relationship to His creation. I beleive that Scripture is inerrant and inspired by God. I believe that Scripture teaches that God is a God of love, as you suggest. But love is merely one of Gods many attributes - although it IS a very significant aspect of His character.
When we consider God's love, we cannot forget that His love does not contradict other aspects of His character such as justice, wisdom, omniscience, or compassion. When we say that God is love, it may not always result in a pleasant result from certain perspectives. A perfect example of this is God's love for His chosen people, the Jews. When God imposed the plagues upon the Egyptians in order to free his chosen people, that was an outpouring of His love toward the Jews. You may argue that only Pharoh really deserved God's punishment, but that was not God's will - he punished all the Egyptian people for the sins of their leader.
We rarely understand God's perfect and divine will for His creation. As referenced earlier in this thread,
Romans 9:20: On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it?
I prefer to trust God in His perfect wisdom even if His decisions appear cavalier from my perspective. The alternative that you purport is that we possess some intrinsic will within us that is prone to choose God. Obviously not all men have this intrinsic will because not all excercise this choice. So I would propose our views are not that far apart. You have choosen God, and all others who have chosen God, have been given some desire for God. I would propose that desire comes only from our Lord and Creator.
I do believe that God is ultimately soveriegn and that nothing occurs in this world without his permission.
So do we. Our differences in theology are that "his permission" seem to be defined differently. From what I can see of your posts, "His permission" is active--He expressly guides every single action by every single person for their entire life.
Our concept of "His permission" is that He allows us to make our own decisions. He can cope with free will and still remain sovereign--He is God, after all.
God created Man "in His own image." That includes the free will we all have. God has free will, thus He gave that to us. And before people start asking me "Can God sin?", the operative word there is "can." Yes, He can. He wouldn't be omnipotent otherwise. Will He sin? Never.
From a calvinist perpsective (I know you claim you are not, but I lack a better term right now), what is the purpose of life? Why are we here? Why make everyone go through this time on earth? Why the Great Commission? Why the Great Sacrifice of Christ? I ask these questions, because it would seem that if God was treating us like puppets, pulling every string to control our every action and decision, there's no poiint to life, the Great Commission, or anything else here. God will save whom He chooses--why preach the Gospel, if He's going to save them anyway?
God saves those he chooses to save. Period.
If God chooses to save children, then He will save children. Jesus seems to say in John 9 that those to whom sight is never given are not charged with sin. But Romans chapter 1 states clearly that all men are given sight at some point and therefore "man" is without excuse.
Now if you want to be nitpicky, then an argument could be made from Romans 1 that not only children are excused, but also women. I don't go that far. I go as far as seeing that Romans chapter 1 lays the law on the hearts of all men and thus all men are responsible for choosing to obey the calling of God. That of course assumes that God must call all men.
I do not claim to be a Calvinist but I do align with many of Jean Calvin's teachings,
That is interesting. There is another poster who frequents here that claims he is not a Calvinist, but on further inspection he is a five point calvinist in every one of his posts and IMO tends not only towards Calvinism, but appears to align himself with many of the definitions of a hyper-Calvinist (and will probably throw a hissy fit because I even said the word "hyper-Calvinist" since he thinks that is something no Calvinist could ever be.
Well, I am not an Arminian. So perhaps between the two of us we can work out a theology that offends everyone.
I do believe that God is ultimately soveriegn and that nothing occurs in this world without his permission. It is hard for me to think otherwise of the Creator and Lord of all.
Dittos. Nothing could possibly happen at all unless it is, in fact, ordained of God. But there is a big differentiation in my mind between cause and ordain. Ordain can mean cause, but it can also mean ratify. Thus while God can cause men to believe in him or even sin, God can also let both good and bad things happen and place his stamp of ultimate approval, as it is all in conjunction with God's ultimate plan (which he has ordained by and through his foreknowledge).
I too look to Scripture for all revelation of God's character, will, and relationship to His creation. I beleive that Scripture is inerrant and inspired by God. I believe that Scripture teaches that God is a God of love, as you suggest. But love is merely one of Gods many attributes - although it IS a very significant aspect of His character.
Ditto
When we consider God's love, we cannot forget that His love does not contradict other aspects of His character such as justice, wisdom, omniscience, or compassion. When we say that God is love, it may not always result in a pleasant result from certain perspectives.
Ditto
We rarely understand God's perfect and divine will for His creation. As referenced earlier in this thread,
Not rarely, but NEVER. It is not our place to understand his will, but to accept it.
I prefer to trust God in His perfect wisdom even if His decisions appear cavalier from my perspective.
Ditto
The alternative that you purport is that we possess some intrinsic will within us that is prone to choose God. Obviously not all men have this intrinsic will because not all excercise this choice.
I don't believe I have ever said that. There is no "intrinsic" will in man that seeks after God. It is God's grace which is irresistibly thrust all men which allows them the capacity and the opportunity to positively respond to God's will. What is intrinsic in man is the urge to reject God and to reject his grace. To those who accept his grace, then his grace was irresistible to them, to those who ultimately reject his grace, then to them it was resistible. Amaziningly enough we are all different, we are not all robots. We are not actors on a stage reading from some script prepared by God. We are created in the image of God and in that sense we have a certain power over our destiny. God can save us. We can ensure our damnation.
You have choosen God, and all others who have chosen God, have been given some desire for God. I would propose that desire comes only from our Lord and Creator.
I was chosen by God. I merely responded postively to his saving grace. Had I died rejecting it, then it is clear that God would not have chosen me -- even from the foundation of the earth.
Now for a bit of my theology.
T-- Total Depravity -- all have sinned. None are righteous.
U -- Unconditional Election -- Not possible. There must be a condition otherwise it is arbitrary. God is not Arbitrary.
L-- Limited Atonement-- Not Biblical, but a necessary linchpin to hold together the other four point.
I -- Irresistible Grace -- You bet. It is irresistibly thrust upon all men. It is, however, rejectible grace. If you receive it you will be saved, if you reject it, you will be damned. But the same grace which results in one man's salvation may result in the next man's damnation.
P-- Perserverence of the Saints -- Eternal life is eternal. Once you have it, you can't lose it. Otherwise it is not eternal.
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My theology is a work in progress. The day I can say "I perfectly understand God" is the day God will take me home to ensure that the secret doesn't get out. :-)