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THE BATTLE OF ATLANTA: Civilians were Sherman's targets
Atlanta Journal Constitution ^ | 07/16/04 | JOHN A. TURES

Posted on 07/18/2004 8:40:59 PM PDT by canalabamian

Not only was William Tecumseh Sherman guilty of many of the crimes that some apologists portray as "tall tales," but also his specter seems to haunt the scandal-ridden halls of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

Sherman had a relatively poor record battling armies. His lack of preparation nearly destroyed Union forces at Shiloh. He was repulsed at Chickasaw Bluffs, losing an early opportunity to capture Vicksburg, Miss. The result was a bloody campaign that dragged on for months. He was blocked by Gen. Pat Cleburne at the Battle of Chattanooga and needed to be bailed out by Gen. George Thomas' Army of the Cumberland. His troops were crushed by rebel forces in the Battle of Kennesaw Mountain.

But Sherman knew how to make war against civilians. After the capture of Atlanta, he engaged in policies similar to ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia by expelling citizens from their homes. "You might as well appeal against the thunderstorm as against these terrible hardships of war," he told the fleeing population. Today, Slobodan Milosevic is on trial for similar actions in Kosovo.

An article on Sherman in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution last spring asserted that Sherman attacked acceptable military targets "by the standards of war at the time." This seems to assume that human rights were invented with the creation of the United Nations. But Gen. Grant did not burn Virginia to the ground. Gen. Lee did not burn Maryland or Pennsylvania when he invaded. Both sought to destroy each other's armies instead of making war against women and children, as Sherman did.

After promising to "make Georgia . . . howl," Sherman continued such policies in the Carolinas. Not only did he preside over the burning of Columbia, but he also executed several prisoners of war in retaliation for the ambush of one of his notorious foraging parties. While Andersonville's camp commander, Henry Wirz, was found guilty of conspiracy to impair the health and destroy the life of prisoners and executed, nothing like that happened to Sherman.

According to an article by Maj. William W. Bennett, Special Forces, U.S. Army, Sherman turned his attention to a new soft target after the Civil War: Native Americans. Rather than engage Indian fighters, Sherman again preferred a strategy of killing noncombatants. After an ambush of a military detachment by Red Cloud's tribe, Sherman said, "We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women and children."

Bennett notes that Sherman carried out his campaign with brutal efficiency. On the banks of the Washita River, Gen. George Armstrong Custer massacred a village of the friendly Cheyenne Chief Black Kettle, who had located to a reservation. Sherman was quoted as saying, "The more we can kill this year, the less will have to be killed the next war, for the more I see of these Indians, the more convinced I am that they all have to be killed or maintained as a species of paupers. Their attempts at civilization are simply ridiculous."

Such slaughter was backed by the extermination of the buffalo as a means of depriving the men, women and children with a source of food. Many Native Americans not killed by Sherman's troopers were forced onto reservations or exiled to Florida to face swamps and disease.

Now we have learned about the abuse of prisoners in Iraq. Such events may seem unrelated, were it not for reports that Sherman's policies are still taught to West Point cadets as an example of how to break an enemy's will to fight.

Are we therefore shocked by the acts of barbarity against Iraqi detainees? As long as we honor Sherman, teach his tactics and revise history to excuse his actions, we can expect more examples of torture and savagery against noncombatants we encounter in other countries.

John Tures is an assistant professor of political science at LaGrange College who was born in Wisconsin, opposes the 1956 Georgia flag and still has a low opinion of Sherman.


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To: zarf
Interesting website you linked that hanging picture from.

Is it yours?
341 posted on 07/19/2004 9:56:08 PM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: Wampus SC
Could be, but nope.

You got any good negro lynching shots? I gotta feelin you do.

342 posted on 07/19/2004 10:02:30 PM PDT by zarf
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To: stand watie
"poor, poor zarf.

he's been lied to for so long that he can't tell the difference between chicken feathers & chicken salad."


For a minute there I thought you were going to say chicken somehting else... LOL

"i wonder if his best 5 years were 5th grade."

I wonder if his current years are the 5th grade.

"he/she writes as though that is true. did you note that he addressed me as "dude"???? NO REAL southerner, over the mental age of 14, would do that."

Yeah, I noticed. "Dude" is not in our vocabulary. This is the person who says as long as Sherman was killing Southerners it's OK, yet claims to be a proud Southerner. Not a chance.

"could it be that walt, the stupid, hateFILLED, ignorant SCALAWAG, is back in a different disguise????"

Oh no, not the completely discredited and disgraced Wlat! Come to think of it, Wlat is known for saying things as messed up as what zarf says, and I'd hate to think there's more than one like ol' Wlat. :)
343 posted on 07/19/2004 10:07:24 PM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: zarf

344 posted on 07/19/2004 10:11:34 PM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: zarf
"You got any good negro lynching shots? I gotta feelin you do."

Unlike you, I wouldn't characterize a picture like that as "good".

No, the one you've supplied is the 1st.

I do have some records of the rape and execution of some of my mixed blood relatives by Sherman's men, though.
345 posted on 07/19/2004 10:17:15 PM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: zarf
and YOU are another in a long line of apologists for the WAR CRIMES of the hateFILLED, arrogant, racist, damnyankee elitists, who show up, spew forth a litany of STUPID, easily refuted, ignorant NONSENSE & then slink away into the night, with tail firmly pressed beneath their back legs.

AND, worse yet,you don't even know that they've made a fool of you. PITIFUL!

may i point out that no less a man of letters than Bill Faulkner said, " Nothing worse may be said of a southern male, than he be named a damned scalawag & traitor to his native southland". you might think on that.

free dixie,sw

346 posted on 07/19/2004 10:25:08 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: zarf; Wampus SC
Since you seem to have missed it - date and place that picture was taken, please?

And speaking of the text of #340, would you say that Sherman's troops; actions described were justified, since Sherman was just trying to end slavery? Or because it was war after all? Or since he won?
347 posted on 07/19/2004 10:25:28 PM PDT by Wampus SC
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To: stand watie
do you also EXCUSE the damnyankee torture, denial of food,clothing & medical attention & COUNTLESS MURDERS of helpless CSA POWs, too???? (about 15,000 were MURDERED in coldblood at the DEATH CAMP at Point Lookout, MD alone.)

Nope. There was no point. I don't understand why everyone blames sherman alone. His plans for Georgia and South Carolina were discussed and approved by his commanding general and his commander-in-chief.

War is hell. Those who start one should not be surprised that it is no fun to lose.

348 posted on 07/19/2004 10:37:49 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Wampus SC
remind me sometime to tell, you about the DEATH TRAIN from the carolinas to PLPOC. (i'm trying to get enough actual data to write a monograph on that subject.)

NOBODY, who was unfortunate enough to be a "passenger" (read PRISONER), locked up in boxcars w/o food & water, arrived alive at the prison camp. ALL of the "passengers" were NON-white. they were blacks, jews, a few latinos & about 1200-1300 indians, but no white guys.

of course the damnyankees, the scalawags & their apologists think that was perfectly OK too! (zarf would say that, "war is hell", i'd guess.)

free dixie,sw

349 posted on 07/19/2004 10:42:42 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Wampus SC; zarf
he probably would say ANYTHING for the "union cause" was OK.

free dixie,sw

350 posted on 07/19/2004 10:44:51 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Wampus SC; zarf
btw, i note that he hasn't had the guts to defend the torture, rape, robbery & murder of my family. one wonders why not????

free dixie,sw

351 posted on 07/19/2004 10:46:09 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: ModelBreaker
do you excuse the HOLOCAUST too, because "war is hell"???? or because eichmann's superiors were also WAR CRIMINALS???

is ANYTHING as a tactic in wartime A-OK with you, provided it isn't done to YOU?????

free dixie,sw

352 posted on 07/19/2004 10:53:49 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: fooman
btw, i'm reliably told that metropolitan BOSTON, MA has more SEGREGATED public schools NOW than all of MS had in 1954????

damnyankees are nothing if not HYPOCRYTES!

free dixie,sw

353 posted on 07/19/2004 11:01:23 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: Mudboy Slim
BUMP!

free dixie,sw

354 posted on 07/19/2004 11:15:49 PM PDT by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. -T. Jefferson)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Suspending the writ of habeas corpus, promising appropriations of monies, calling forth massive armies, implementing naval blockades (an act of war), having the miltary arrest those that spoke out against him, shutting down newspapers that dared to question his policies, etc, &c, ad naseum.

Suspending the writ - the constitutionality or unconstitutionality of this action has never been determined. But you knew that.

Promising appropriations of monies - Presidents promise money all the time, but only Congress can appropriate. Congress did that in this case. Nothing illegal in these actions. But you knew that.

Calling forth massive armies - under the authority granted the president by the Militia Act, Lincoln had the authority to call up the state militias. He also, as Commander-in-Chief could order an increase in the size of the Army and Navy. He was dependent on Congress to fund these actions, which they did when they met in July. Nothing illegal was done here. But you knew that.

Implementing naval blockades (an act of war)- War is wged between sovereign nations, how does one declare war on one's own country? The blockade was a measure adopted by Lincoln under his authority as Commander-in-Chief to combat the rebellion. There was nothing illegal about that. But you already knew that.

Having the miltary arrest those that spoke out against him, shutting down newspapers that dared to question his policies -- you exaggerations aside, the military was granted the authority to hold people for trial when habeas corpus was suspended by Congress. As it turned out, this authority was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan, but at the time there was no precedent that indicated that Lincoln or the military were acting illegally. But you already knew that.

The decision by Chief Justice Taney in ex parte Merryman was an in-chambers decision by the Chief Justice, with the decision to be forwarded to the Maryland Circuit Court...

Nonsense. The decision was issued by the Chief Justice from the Circuit Court Bench in Baltimore where he was presiding in his position as Chief of that Federal Circuit. It was not issued by the Supreme Court. The decision of the Chief Justice Taney wasn't taken before the entire court so the Constitutionality is undetermined.

And 9 justices of the Supreme Court agreed in ex parte Milligan held...?

Ex Parte Milligan was an 1865 decision, you can hardly blame Lincoln for violating it before the decision was handed down. And to the best of my knowledge, habeas corpus has not been suspended since then in states not in rebellion, although with Ashcroft you never know. Still, you knew all that, too, didn't you?

355 posted on 07/20/2004 4:05:43 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: Wampus SC
It reminds me of an incident in Chesterfield County, SC during the WBTS. There's a crossroads there where Sherman's men took every black slave they could find, lined them up, and shot them. Just ask any of the older black people in the area. They're very glad to tell their story to anyone who will listen.

Surely you have some evidence other than that to support such a claim?

356 posted on 07/20/2004 4:07:34 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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Comment #357 Removed by Moderator

To: stand watie

Are you a democrat? The whole south was democrats at that time. So I must assume that since you folks from down there are still fighting that useless and idiotic war started by DEMOCRATS, then you must be a registered democrat.


358 posted on 07/20/2004 4:56:50 AM PDT by crz
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To: Non-Sequitur
As it turned out, this authority was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan, but at the time there was no precedent that indicated that Lincoln or the military were acting illegally. But you already knew that.

Thank you. As it turned out, secession was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, but at the time there was no precedent that indicated that the Confederacy were acting illegally. But you already knew that. If Lincoln actions weren't illegal, neither were those of the confederacy.

The decision was issued by the Chief Justice from the Circuit Court Bench in Baltimore where he was presiding in his position as Chief of that Federal Circuit.

If Taney were issing a ruling from the Circuit Court, that would make this statement in the decision superfluous

'I shall, therefore, order all the proceedings in this case, with my opinion, to be filed and recorded in the circuit court of the United States for the district of Maryland.'
Why would Taney state that he would have the decision filed in a CC if it was a CC decision? The decision begins, 'Before the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, at Chambers.'

Taney notes that '[t]he petition was presented to me at Washington, under the impression that I would order the prisoner to be brought before me there' - i.e - before the Supreme Court, not the Maryland Circuit.

359 posted on 07/20/2004 4:58:45 AM PDT by 4CJ (||) Men die by the calendar, but nations die by their character. - John Armor, 5 Jun 2004 (||)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
As it turned out, secession was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, but at the time there was no precedent that indicated that the Confederacy were acting illegally.

Agreed. But you continue to insist that unilateral secession as practiced by the southern states is legal, regardless of the fact that the Supreme Court has ruled otherwise. I don't go around insisting that habeas corpus can be suspended in states that are not in rebellion in the face of a Supreme Court ruling to the contrary.

If Taney were issing a ruling from the Circuit Court, that would make this statement in the decision superfluous

If Taney's opinion was a majority opinion for the entire cort then what was the vote? You might want to read Taney's biography, "Without Fear of Favor" by Walker Lewis. Lewis goes into the Ex Parte Milligan decision in some detail, right down to describing the court room in Baltimore where the case was heard and the decision was handed down.

360 posted on 07/20/2004 5:12:17 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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