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Science Icon Fires Broadside At Creationists
London Times vis The Statesman (India) ^ | 04 July 2004 | Times of London Editorial

Posted on 07/04/2004 5:19:27 PM PDT by PatrickHenry

Professor Ernst Mayr, the scientist renowned as the father of modern biology, will celebrate his 100th birthday tomorrow by leading a scathing attack on creationism.

The evolutionary biologist, who is already acclaimed as one of the most prolific researchers of all time, has no intention of retiring and is shortly to publish new research that dismantles the fashionable creationist doctrine of “intelligent design”.

Although he has reluctantly cut his workload since a serious bout of pneumonia 18 months ago, Prof. Mayr has remained an active scientist at Harvard University throughout his 90s. He has written five books since his 90th birthday and is researching five academic papers. One of these, scheduled to appear later this year, will examine how “intelligent design” — the latest way in which creationists have sought to present a divine origin of the world — was thoroughly refuted by Charles Darwin a century and a half ago.

His work is motivated in part by a sense of exasperation at the re-emergence of creationism in the USA, which he compares unfavourably with the widespread acceptance of evolution that he encountered while growing up in early 20th-century Germany.

The states of Florida, Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois, Kentucky and Oklahoma currently omit the word “evolution” from their curriculums. The Alabama state board of education has voted to include disclaimers in textbooks describing evolution as a theory. In Georgia, the word “evolution” was banned from the science curriculum after the state’s schools superintendent described it as a “controversial buzzword”.

Fierce protest, including criticism from Jimmy Carter, the former President, reversed this.

Prof. Mayr, who will celebrate his 100th birthday at his holiday home in New Hampshire with his two daughters, five grandchildren and 10 great-grandchildren, was born on 5 July 1905 in Kempten, Germany. He took a PhD in zoology at the University of Berlin, before travelling to New Guinea in 1928 to study its diverse bird life. On his return in 1930 he emigrated to the USA. His most famous work, Systematics and the Origin of Species, was published in 1942 and is regarded still as a canonical work of biology.

It effectively founded the modern discipline by combining Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection with Gregor Mendel’s genetics, showing how the two were compatible. Prof. Mayr redefined what scientists mean by a species, using interbreeding as a guide. If two varieties of duck or vole do not interbreed, they cannot be the same species.

Prof. Mayr has won all three of the awards sometimes termed the “triple crown” of biology — the Balzan Prize, the Crafoord Prize and the International Prize for Biology. Although he formally retired in 1975, he has been active as an Emeritus Professor ever since and has recently written extensively on the philosophy of biology.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist
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To: Doctor Stochastic
And speaking of taxonomy, sans evolutionary theory (at least the common descent part), why would one use a tree structure to trace anthrax.

Oooh! Oooh! (Waves hand!)

Because it turns out that it's always a tree?

341 posted on 07/06/2004 12:34:03 PM PDT by VadeRetro (You don't just bat those big liquid eyes and I start noticing how lovely you are. Hah!)
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To: Dimensio; Aquinasfan
You have to wonder if Aquinas would have been an Aquinasfan fan. Not saying I know. I could go either way with it.
342 posted on 07/06/2004 12:36:53 PM PDT by VadeRetro (You don't just bat those big liquid eyes and I start noticing how lovely you are. Hah!)
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To: VadeRetro

Tree blind mice...


343 posted on 07/06/2004 12:37:14 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: js1138; balrog666; PatrickHenry
Square the existence of life with the Second Law.

Can't be done. The "life direction" runs counter to the direction of the Second Law. Yet matter seems entirely under that law. So how can life emerge from non-life?

344 posted on 07/06/2004 12:45:40 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
At least explain to me how you "square" abiogenesis with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. 'Cause I sure can't figure out any way to do it.

BB, you've been in and out of these threads long enough to know quite well that no one yet has worked out the method by which life first began. There are some ideas about it, but nothing's been demonstrated yet. However, I doubt that the Second Law is a problem. The energy for the first living molecules probably came from the same source as the energy that sustains a tree. It's the sun.

345 posted on 07/06/2004 12:55:51 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: betty boop
The "life direction" runs counter to the direction of the Second Law.

If that is true then the Second Law is false and it can't be used to argue anything.

Except that thus far there's no indication that the Second Law is false, because life does not, in fact, run counter to it. You need to look up the term "closed system".
346 posted on 07/06/2004 1:01:50 PM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://tinyurl.com/3xj9m)
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To: MacDorcha
evolution "might" be proved by fossils

The theory of evolution will never be "proven". Absolutely no theory in science is every proven. Why do you keep using that term when you have been repeatedly informed that it is not applicable?
347 posted on 07/06/2004 1:03:44 PM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://tinyurl.com/3xj9m)
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To: MacDorcha
and none of this new evidence contradicts a God and a translation of the Bible.

I never said that it did.

where is your issue i ask you?

My issue is with creationists -- that is, those who insist that evolution theory is false -- who use lies, misinformation, out-of-context quotes (tantamount to lying) and bizarre unsupported assertions about the motives of scientists in their arguments.
348 posted on 07/06/2004 1:06:18 PM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://tinyurl.com/3xj9m)
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To: MacDorcha
you say God doesnt exist.

When did I say this?
349 posted on 07/06/2004 1:07:46 PM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://tinyurl.com/3xj9m)
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To: PatrickHenry; js1138; balrog666
The energy for the first living molecules probably came from the same source as the energy that sustains a tree. It's the sun.

That's a huge leap, PH. You have (1) inert matter. Then suddenly, magically, you have (2) a living molecule. The sun did it. Okay, 'splain to me how inert matter cooked up the ability to utilize energy so that it could become alive. The Second Law says that if you leave a material system to its own devices, entropy -- heat death -- takes over, not life. How did matter suddenly get "smart enuf" to utilize energy for the life process -- which is the very opposite of heat death? Did the Second Law find a way to overrule itself so that matter could do this?

350 posted on 07/06/2004 1:07:49 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
Let's test your understanding, balrog: Give a rational defense of abiogensis based on evidence.

At least explain to me how you "square" abiogenesis with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. 'Cause I sure can't figure out any way to do it.

All right, who are you and what did you do with the real Betty Boop?

351 posted on 07/06/2004 1:10:47 PM PDT by balrog666 (A public service post.)
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To: betty boop
That's a huge leap, PH. You have (1) inert matter. Then suddenly, magically, you have (2) a living molecule.

Only creationists assert the use of magic when explaining the origin of the first life forms.

Okay, 'splain to me how inert matter cooked up the ability to utilize energy so that it could become alive.

Why? Are you ignorant of basic chemistry?

The Second Law says that if you leave a material system to its own devices, entropy -- heat death -- takes over, not life.

You left out the part about the second law only applying to closed systems. That's a fundamental creationist error, they ignore the fact that the second law only applies to closed systems. When a planet is getting a constant stream of photons, it's not a closed system. Yes, there was an overall net increase in entropy, but the bulk of that entropy occured within the large yellow star several million miles of the planet receiving the energy input.

How did matter suddenly get "smart enuf" to utilize energy for the life process -- which is the very opposite of heat death?

It's not about matter being "smart", it's about matter doing what matter does given a steady influx of energy into the system.

Did the Second Law find a way to overrule itself so that matter could do this?

The Second Law applies just fine, and there weren't any exceptions applied. You just don't understand how the second law works.
352 posted on 07/06/2004 1:12:20 PM PDT by Dimensio (Join the Monthly Internet Flash Mob: http://tinyurl.com/3xj9m)
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To: betty boop
That's a huge leap, PH. You have (1) inert matter. Then suddenly, magically, you have (2) a living molecule.

I think I've already said we don't yet know the means by which it happened.

The sun did it.

I didn't say that. I said that's the source of the engergy.

Okay, 'splain to me how inert matter cooked up the ability to utilize energy so that it could become alive.

I can't. No one can. Not yet.

The Second Law says that if you leave a material system to its own devices, entropy -- heat death -- takes over, not life.

No, that's not it at all, except in a closed system with no external source of energy. We've got the sun. The sun, BB. That's where all life on earth gets its energy. (Except for a few creatures that live in weird undersea hot water vents.)

353 posted on 07/06/2004 1:13:16 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: Dimensio; PatrickHenry; balrog666; js1138
...life does not, in fact, run counter to it. You need to look up the term "closed system".

Life is an open system, or rather an open process. Material systems are closed. The Second Law pertains to the latter. But abiogenesis says the latter becomes the former. All you need is to add a little sunshine, and viola! Life results!!!

This is a "just so" story -- no explanation given of how this stunning transition could have been effected; just glide over the "missing part" and pretend it's not missing. And then (try to) call it "science." Jeez!!!!

354 posted on 07/06/2004 1:16:07 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
The energy for the first living molecules probably came from the same source as the energy that sustains a tree.

Why do you accept the "premise" that a molecule is alive? Someone is trying to slip a logical fallacy into the argument.

355 posted on 07/06/2004 1:17:40 PM PDT by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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To: betty boop
This is a "just so" story -- no explanation given of how this stunning transition could have been effected; just glide over the "missing part" and pretend it's not missing. And then (try to) call it "science." Jeez!!!!

Calm down, BB. No one is giving you a "just so" story. It's an area for investigation (unrelated to evolution), and it's being investigated. You gotta problem wid dat?

356 posted on 07/06/2004 1:21:00 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Hic amor, haec patria est.)
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To: betty boop

Yet life exists. Either the Second Law is false or you misunderstand it. I'm betting on the latter. The first instance of life is indeed a mystery, but there is nothing in science that did not begin as a mystery.


357 posted on 07/06/2004 1:21:17 PM PDT by js1138 (In a minute there is time, for decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse. J Forbes Kerry)
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To: PatrickHenry
I think I've already said we don't yet know the means by which it happened.

Well, do you really mind if someone tries a different approach to see what they can turn up? Or do you really expect it will/must be a Darwinist who comes up with that "Eureka!" moment?

358 posted on 07/06/2004 1:21:24 PM PDT by betty boop
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To: betty boop
That's a huge leap, PH. You have (1) inert matter. Then suddenly, magically, you have (2) a living molecule.

Is it? You have (1) inert matter a very large vat of chemical soup. Then suddenly, magically a long time later, you have (2) a living self-replicating molecule(s).

359 posted on 07/06/2004 1:21:41 PM PDT by balrog666 (A public service post.)
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To: Dimensio; betty boop
It's not about matter being "smart", it's about matter doing what matter does given a steady influx of energy into the system.

It takes more than energy to turn dirt into the Empire State building. I would venture to say Venus has received more energy from the sun than the Earth has, and no one has discovered a mud hut there.

360 posted on 07/06/2004 1:22:26 PM PDT by AndrewC (I am a Bertrand Russell agnostic, even an atheist.</sarcasm>)
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