To: Houmatt
![](http://courses.washington.edu/englhtml/engl569/berger/gogh9.jpg)
Upon completing this painting, Vincent van Gogh went inside and shot himself in the stomach. He died two days later.
38 posted on
04/06/2004 1:16:35 PM PDT by
presidio9
("There are no mistakes -- only Happy Accidents." -Bob Ross)
To: presidio9
You forgot to make a point.
41 posted on
04/06/2004 2:38:45 PM PDT by
Houmatt
(This is not here.)
To: presidio9
Houmatt, Presidio: I think this painting by Van Gogh is symbolically extremely appropriate, in reference to people such as Kurt Cobain and his death -- and should serve to show a concrete example of the statistics -- that many, many artists are bipolar. Educate yourself to know that bipolars commit suicide one in five, and that's a whopping percentage.
So think. When one is a performer, one is more likely to come into contact with not only the pressures of being treated in the entertainment business like a spoiled, trained monkey, but likely the person feels there's less substantiation for the fame and attention one is seeking (unless also a narcissist) and typically, bipolars have low self-esteem and don't feel they "deserve" or warrant such approval. Often they get the thought that "People would be better off without me", even when they have children who need them. Clearly in the case of Cobain, who had recognizable talent by so many -- it wasn't true, but psychotic depression in Bipolar I can put these thoughts in a salient place that can't be denied by the sufferer. Unfortunately, rock and roll has a mix of the precise elements that can lead someone who is a bipolar individual down that empty, lonely road at the top to suicide -- Kurt, from his writings, felt he was "fooling everyone", a common pattern -- that is truly tragic. But the biggest point is that no matter how successful the artists became, it wasn't enough to squelch the aching depression that racked their minds and bodies. And because their managers and record labels and such are not more prepared to help the artist deal with this condition and should be; it's a real waste in the long run. Although, it's almost as if they do this purposely because the suffering of the disorder spurs creativity, heightens productivity, much like locking up a race horse in a stall and feeding it sugar until it wants to run like crazy. In fact, it's downright cruel. And in this day and age of remission for bipolar, and sophisticated, effective treatment, there's really no excuse.
Bipolars are at risk for suicide when avoiding help or being misdiagnosed, misprescribed, and mistreated medically. And, socially. Managers don't deal with this, nor their artist's health and well-being, from Marilyn Monroe to Robert Downey Jr. What exacerbates the condition is the late nights, bad diet, no exercise, no sleep, alcohol, drugs... their habits in self-medication often lead to death. Hence, John Bonham, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison... a long list of musicians have died this way, along with all the other artists who choose to end their life. Thomas Dylan, the writer, lined up forty shots of booze and fell over dead after the last one. Hemingway shot himself; since it's genetic, his granddaughter, actress Margeaux Hemmingway did the same thing, by using bipolar medication itself to overdose. Considering about half of all musicians, painters, writers, poets, dancers ... and a surprisingly high number emergency room doctors (bipolar people seem to be able to stay awake nights more easily with a different circadian rhythm) are all bipolar... if you're going to discount their value as human beings, dismiss their craft, or discredit their talent, simply because they have succumbed to this disease in death at their own hands, through no real fault of their own -- I must say you are not only ignorant, but judgmental and an insensitive fellow human being. "Lithium", one of the songs centered around the painful feelings a bipolar individual experiences, that was penned by Kurt Cobain, shows that his difficult, haunting emotional demons were not ones that were self-indulgent, nor was his suicide one that was avoidable, unless someone could help him sensitively and appropriately... he couldn't help himself, even though his personal notes show him trying so hard to do so. He was likely used by his own record company, ignored except for what he produced, much like Mozart was -- his angst making some of the more memorable lyrics and music ever produced. The same can be said of so many others. In art, you would be bashing not only Van Gogh, but artists and famous leaders, all the way from Winston Churchill to Georgia O'Keefe. In writing, poets to novelists, from Walt Whitman to Stephen King. As I said, this list is very long... you can google it if you like. But in the meantime, I think that Cobain's death isn't a good subject for your subjective analysis and opinion, if you are to posses a shred of validity, since you haven't got the knowledge behind you to understand his particular circumstances, life, or feelings, which are most commonly misunderstood by the public and the press. Let's just be glad that he left a legacy behind him that some people cherish in his music, that they relate to -- even if you don't. For those with a lot of insight, or, some who identify with that music precisely because they share the same physical, chemical, and structural orientation as Cobain did -- he left something behind that is valuable.
Thanks. And, I pray you might have a bit of sympathy for a talented man (whether you personally liked his music, or not...) who was suddenly thrust into the limelight when in reality he wanted to hide his own imagined failings (delusions, of course, he was a great success) and personal struggles. One look at Courtney Love and you can see that woman proves what medical books from schools such as Johns Hopkins say: That bipolars "associatively marry" very often. Since she recently overdosed, and had to go through life carrying the death of her husband, it's no wonder her life might take the very same path toward self-inflicted demise.
Best to you.
Lilly
96 posted on
04/10/2004 10:22:30 PM PDT by
MrsTWN
("Some things are true whether you believe them or not." - City of Angels)
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