Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ
THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.
A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.
"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."
Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.
"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."
About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.
"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."
Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.
"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.
"That's all it ever was."
Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.
"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.
"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."
Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.
"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."
Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.
"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.
Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.
"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!
"They were protected."
Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.
After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.
Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.
"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."
Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.
"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."
Just a slight overestimation on our part.
and you point out that one southerner couldn't whip three Yankees, either.
Incorrect. We could and did for four years. Since deciding factors occur at the margin, the excess beyond 3 yankees for every southerner made the final determination. Normally the guy who loses the most men also loses the war. Y'all lost 100,000 more men than we did yet managed to squeek out a win - albeit a difficult one at that - for no other reason than that you were more populous.
Priceless! I'm sure they worked out some new fancy battle formation by dispersing throughout in the rigging as well.
Does it not harken back the days when sailors lined the side of the ship and fired muskets at enemy ships? But then, the Union was not expecting an enemy fleet to engage. After deep and prolonged thought, I have determined that the Union thought the ocean was seceding and they declared the Atlantic Ocean and inland waterways to be Enemy Belligerents and traitors and the arms were for the men on the ship to shoot the Atlantic Ocean until it submitted to the will of superior force.
Confederates opened hostilities by firing on the "Star of the West" (is that the name?) so hostilities towards ships were to be expected.
Do you also have the documention between generals of every time a federal soldier took a s*** in South Carolina? lol Things changed when the South seceded. It would've been better for the troops to be supplied by the federal government.
According to Thomas Lowry and his wife Beverly, there were four types of courts-martial in the Union army: general, regimental, garrison, and drumhead. The records researched contain only general courts-martial, formal records for the other 3 types are not within the papers, or are missing in their entireity.
Lowry notes that many of the crimes covered by the "conduct prejudicial" charge include assault and rape. Rapes could be among the possible Section 134 offenses, viz:
Assault-indecent (the accused assaulted a certain person with the intent to gratify the lust or sexual desires of the accused)The courts-martial (guilty verdicts) for "conduct prejudicial" number 11,834, of which a significant portion would include the above offenses. And finally, Lowry notes that the usual definition of rape did not normally apply to slaves.
Assault with intent to commit rape (the accused must have intended to overcome any resistance by force, and to complete the rape)
Assault with intent to commit sodomy (an assault against a human being and must be committed with a specific intent to commit sodomy)
Indecent acts or liberties with a child (the accused committed a certain act upon or with the body of a certain person under 16 years of age and not the spouse of the accused, the act of the accused was indecent, the accused committed the act with intent to arouse, appeal to, or gratify the lust, passions, or sexual desires of the accused)
Indecent acts with another (the accused committed a certain wrongful act with a certain person, the act was indecent [grossly vulgar, obscene, and repugnant to common propriety])
The "Star of the West" was attacked.
The "ship's men" needed arms to return fire expected from the shore batteries. Picture it in your mind and try not to snork coffee all over your keyboard.
Todays military ships do indeed have guns. What's so extraordinary about it?
I guess they don't consider seizing property and arms and attacking ships as acts of war. lol
If anyone sold their soul, it was the South, they seceded for slavery.
Home-field advantage that the South got a taste of when they went to Gettysburg. Plus our best general defected so it's not the easiest thing to do to find a good general like Grant and Sherman.
Modern military ships don't have guns?
You still don't have numbers. You have the total number of courts'-martial, but no way to know how they were distributed and since 350 were court-martialed for rape, then it appears that the union called rape "rape" in their courts-martial.
Came across it looking for something else on Lee.
Where they got their food did not change until SC learned that the fleet had sailed.
It was our property and Lincoln was not obliged by any agreement that the Buchanan Administration made verbally (or even non-verbally if it involves the welfare of troops).
"Extraordinary" is probably the exact word I would have used to discribe the guns of today's warships, specifically with reference to the MK45 Mod 4:
The MK45 Mod 4, combined with the ERGM enhanced munition, is capable of providing accurate over-the-horizon fire support in all weather conditions.
Yes, I know that's not what you meant.
It has been adequately demonstrated that it did not involve welfare of troops.
I see you're already backing into the "it was ours and we could do as we wished" version of this argument, seeing as how the 'starving garrison at Sumter' argument made previously discharges the last few twiches of its death spiral.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.