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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; xzins; CCWoody; Vernon; The Grammarian; connectthedots; Corin Stormhands; ...
So, when God permits Murder, is His Will to grant such Permission -- Imperfect?

No because it is in line with his ultimate will. That all things work together for good.

Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings,

Perfect will

and ye would not!

Permissive Will.

Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate:

Consequence of failure to yield to God's perfect will

and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Accomplishment of His Ultimate Will.

289 posted on 02/09/2004 8:50:38 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o* &AAGG & Former member of PWAODSDNPOPTML)
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To: P-Marlowe
Isn't it amazing that people can reach the point of blaming God for the death of six million in the halocaust, instead of a deranged mind like Adolf Hitler? This certainly doesn't fit the idea of a "good" God, does it?
292 posted on 02/09/2004 8:59:52 PM PST by Vernon (Sir "Ol Vern" aka Brother Maynard, a child of the King!)
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To: P-Marlowe; CCWoody; xzins
So, when God permits Murder, is His Will to grant such Permission -- Imperfect?
No because it is in line with his ultimate will. That all things work together for good.

Alright, now you've introduced a new term. God's "Ultimate Will".

Keep spinning, Marlowe... I could be well moved, if I were as you. But I am constant as the Northern Star, of whose true fixed and resting quality there is no fellow in the firmament.

If God's Ultimate Will is Perfect, then God has Ultimately, Perfectly Willed the Damnation of those whom He has Ultimately, Perfectly appointed to Damnation.

If it is God's Ultimate Will that certain individuals be damned; And if God's Ultimate Will is Perfect; then God has Perfectly Willed the damnation of certain individuals.


Of course, the matter is simplified when we realize that which you refer to as God's "Perfect Will", which should in many cases be more correctly called God's moral Commandments to Men, is but an aspect of his Ultimate, Perfect Will.

For example -- Paul declares in Acts 17 his mission to preach Repentance unto all the Gentiles. God has issued a Moral Command to All that they are under orders to Repent.

Of course, the Bible is adamant throughout Scripture that a Spiritually-Dead Man will never Believe and Repent, without the prior Regeneration of the Holy Spirit. And so, by His Causative Will, God does cause some men to Repent; and by His permissive Will, He does permit others to remain in UnRepentance.

All of which attends to the accomplishment of His Perfect, Ultimate Will -- to Save the Elect, and Damn the Reprobate.

305 posted on 02/10/2004 12:21:44 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: P-Marlowe; Vernon; Corin Stormhands; Revelation 911; The Grammarian; connectthedots; ShadowAce; ...
Ping to Marlowe's comments below: excellent enumeration of perfect, permissive, and ultimate wills of God.

Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings,

Perfect will

and ye would not!

Permissive Will.

Luk 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate:

Consequence of failure to yield to God's perfect will

and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Accomplishment of His Ultimate Will.

313 posted on 02/10/2004 5:56:24 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army and Proud of It!!)
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